Originally written by sidecarbrit on 5/1/2007 7:13 PM
Well I have ordered the 07 Manual!
On the 18th April the dealer said he was waiting for the approval No. to replace the sidecar.
On the 1st May he said HD want their Rep to inspect the sidecar!As the speed limit is mainly 55 - 60 around here I am now just using 5th gear at those speeds and anything less I am in 4th.
So for most road use I am in 4th.
5th gear is such a noisy rattly gear.Paul
Hi there. I hope they will replace that tub for you. They certainly should. The problem that you have is certainly manufacturing oriented and is extremely rare. On a new unit, you shouldn't have to beg. Perhaps a bit of screaming is in order.
I don't like to ride terribly fast. My bike is an 88" 2004 model and has a little less power than the one you have. On the good side, it only has five speeds and they are all quiet. Everybody I have spoken to has complained about the relatively noisy sound of the fifth gear in the 2007's They went to a spur (straight cut gear). Don't know why. It can be quieted down by using something like Bel-Ray 90-140 gear lube. It's the red stuff available at the HD dealer. I run it in my bike to quiet the low gear when I first engage it. 20w-50 is too light for a transmission, IMHO.
I have been road testing my new sidecar and now have it all dialed in. It required only one turn of the rear stand-off to increase toe-in slightly and bring it right in. Amazing!
In doing my first rides with the new sidecar, I discovered that fifth gear is simply too high for my riding style. The engine will pull it right up to 80 mph with no trouble but I can't get into fith (high) gear much below 55-60 if I wish to prevent lugging the engine.
I know that the present gearing is 3.15:1. The HD company changed to higher gearing in the mid 2000's for fuel economy and to meet EPA specs. For the record, your 96" bike is geared even higher than that, 2.92:1 or thereabouts.
The earlier bikes in the 1990s all had a 3.37:1 ratio which is almost perfect for pulling a sidecar. With that gearing, I will be able to get into fifth gear around 45-50 mph and that will be better for me.
Fortunately, the gearing change requires replacing only two parts, the engine sprocket and the clutch basket and sprocket. This is a change from 25 teeth and 36 teeth to 24 and 37 teeth, respectively. Parts are on order and when I receive them next week, I'm looking at about 4 hours of work and the gearing will be corrected.
Sorry to say, due to the complete re-design of the drive line on the 2007 bikes wit the six-speed transmission, parts for changing primary gearing are not yet avaiable and I couldn't tell you when if ever they might be. With my bum left leg, the last thing in the world I would want is another gear. LOL.
Good luck on your tub. Happy Trails.
Good News!
Today I met the Man from HD and he agreed to have the Tub replaced.
It was interesting that there were a number of Items that were not up to scratch on the sidecar and they will be treated and resprayed.
I now have a 07 manual.
I presume the Text you refer to being incorrect in the Manual Page 4-4 item 5- re.Toe in. As no bolts need to be removed. Out of curiousity I will contact Harley Technical Services ( do they have such a Dept.) And ask if they have corrected the Error yet?
Any Thoughts on what I should do about the fuel(Gas) as I will be leaving for UK for 3 months and With my other vehicles I put Sta-Bil in the Gas. before I leave- to stop the gas going off and gumming up the Carbs/injectors.
Thanks
Paul
Originally written by sidecarbrit on 5/9/2007 8:38 PM
Good News!
Today I met the Man from HD and he agreed to have the Tub replaced.It was interesting that there were a number of Items that were not up to scratch on the sidecar and they will be treated and resprayed.
I now have a 07 manual.
I presume the Text you refer to being incorrect in the Manual Page 4-4 item 5- re.Toe in. As no bolts need to be removed. Out of curiousity I will contact Harley Technical Services ( do they have such a Dept.) And ask if they have corrected the Error yet?Any Thoughts on what I should do about the fuel(Gas) as I will be leaving for UK for 3 months and With my other vehicles I put Sta-Bil in the Gas. before I leave- to stop the gas going off and gumming up the Carbs/injectors.
Thanks
Paul
Hi, They have an address in the front of the manual for corrections.
Service Commnications Department
Harley-Davidson Motor Cmpany
PO. Box 653
Milwaukee, WI 53201.
I knew they would give you a new tub. The more I think about it, I'm pretty sure that happened in the shipping process since it never would have passed their quality control inspections. Glad to hear it!
Stabil works fine. It will protect your bike. Another tning you might want to do would be to remove the EFI fuse and run the engine until it stops as mentioned in the manual for work on the system.
Another issue will be the battery. If you leave it for three months, it will be stone dead when you return unless you manage to leave it on some sort of a tender....The bike draws from 25 to 50 ma so it needs a battery tender but it's not a good idea if the bike is to be left unattended for three months.
Good luck.
Looking in the front of my 07 manual I see the address and form to send in to improve the quality and usefulness of the manual, that you mentioned- a pity they don't give an email address- I suppose they are more comfortable with snail mail.LoL
Are you saying it is possibly better to run the gas out of the tank rather than put a fuel preserver in. Or by taking the fuse out does it just run the gas out of the injection system as modern tanks do not have gas taps?
I was thinking of connecting the battery up to a battery minder by VDC and it comes with a dedicated connector for the Battery- my only concern is if I disconnect the battery to connect the leads onto the terminals- is it like Car systems that when you disconnect the battery for a few minutes the on board computer loses all its settings and then needs reprogramning?
Thanks again
Paul
Originally written by sidecarbrit on 5/10/2007 8:46 PM
Looking in the front of my 07 manual I see the address and form to send in to improve the quality and usefulness of the manual, that you mentioned- a pity they don't give an email address- I suppose they are more comfortable with snail mail.LoL
Are you saying it is possibly better to run the gas out of the tank rather than put a fuel preserver in. Or by taking the fuse out does it just run the gas out of the injection system as modern tanks do not have gas taps?
I was thinking of connecting the battery up to a battery minder by VDC and it comes with a dedicated connector for the Battery- my only concern is if I disconnect the battery to connect the leads onto the terminals- is it like Car systems that when you disconnect the battery for a few minutes the on board computer loses all its settings and then needs reprogramning?
Thanks again
Paul
Don't worry about the manual. I sent a letter to HD yesterday pointing out the error and asking for an amendment sheet. They'll fix it.
When you remove the EFI fuse and start the engine, it deactivates the fuel pump and the engine will run the fuel delivery system dry. It will leave the fuel in the tank but it would be better for storage. I also think there is a section on storage in the service manual that might be more comprehensive than what I could tell you.
Disconnecting the battery will not affect the ECM (Engine Control Module) but it will cause the radio to drop its settings. At worst you would only have to reset the radio preset positions later on.
Good luck!
Well I have had an entertaining few days and learnt more about my Harley.
I installed the leads to the battery for the battery minder - when I removed the Negative connections from the battery I found them badly corroded, and this is on a new 07, got the baking soda out and Vasaline and put it all back together. Oh and 2 of the Harley connections which were originally round like a washer, had a Chunk cut out of them so they could just slide them between the other terminals without having to take the bolt out and threading them all on...........
The entertainment continued when I inspected the Fuse Block cover-Fig 8-4- 2 or 3 spare 15 amp fuses are provided - there was one.
I put the Sta-Bil in the Gas when I filled up and was going to run the injection system dry by removing the Fuel pump fuse -Fig 8-7 from the EFI fuse block. More Humour when I tried to release the EFI fuse block- there is no white dot on my EFI unit as shown in the manual and the cable to the ECM cable is not in the position as shown in Fig 8-6.
I think its called Artistic licence.....LOL
I was looking at the drive belt to the rear wheel and its amazing how small its width looks- I suppose its from looking at all those choppers at bike shows!
And finally if anyone wants to know how small an opening you can get a FLHTC and sidecar - the manual says its 6ft 4ins wide - it goes into my garage with an opening of 6ft with a bit of jiggling!
Paul
Originally written by sidecarbrit on 5/14/2007 8:14 PM
Well I have had an entertaining few days and learnt more about my Harley.
I installed the leads to the battery for the battery minder - when I removed the Negative connections from the battery I found them badly corroded, and this is on a new 07, got the baking soda out and Vasaline and put it all back together. Oh and 2 of the Harley connections which were originally round like a washer, had a Chunk cut out of them so they could just slide them between the other terminals without having to take the bolt out and threading them all on...........
The entertainment continued when I inspected the Fuse Block cover-Fig 8-4- 2 or 3 spare 15 amp fuses are provided - there was one.
I put the Sta-Bil in the Gas when I filled up and was going to run the injection system dry by removing the Fuel pump fuse -Fig 8-7 from the EFI fuse block. More Humour when I tried to release the EFI fuse block- there is no white dot on my EFI unit as shown in the manual and the cable to the ECM cable is not in the position as shown in Fig 8-6.
I think its called Artistic licence.....LOLI was looking at the drive belt to the rear wheel and its amazing how small its width looks- I suppose its from looking at all those choppers at bike shows!
And finally if anyone wants to know how small an opening you can get a FLHTC and sidecar - the manual says its 6ft 4ins wide - it goes into my garage with an opening of 6ft with a bit of jiggling!
Paul
This is all part of the fun. It will be the making of you!
I posted on a Brit HD web site to see what people had to say in Blighty what they thought of the New 07 Gearboxs - I think these 2 replies might originate back in the Good old US of A- especially as they mention California- might be a clue!.
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1`st gear is a little high. I was riding a new Street Glide today, & it was irritating.
Fifth gear is noisy due to being straight cut instead if helical. Putting a decent synthetic gear oil in can quiet it down though.
The 3000 rpm thing is baloney though. Just don`t lug it. How do you know if you are lugging it? Well you shouldn`t be riding a bike if you don`t.
When I get above 60mph on the flat, I stuff it in 6th gear & cruise all day. Better fuel consumption, less engine wear & quieter.
i`ll put my little bit in. I spent the day running around today between our three dealerships on an 07 Classic, about 200 miles. Temp ranging between 85-95.
1- 65 & over for sixth...Absolutely, otherwise lugging. Fifth gear, mmmm don`t lug it. Had no experience of pinging though, the 07 has a knock sensor which retards the timing.
Fifth gear is a pain in the arse, we have replaced several that were just too noisy!
2-Technically correct. Here in California: Pipes, air cleaner are ok. As long as you have not cracked the engine open & added upgrades you are ok. That however is state law.
3- Er....Warranty is warranty, & has f*ck all to do with using the wrong gear.
4- There is a free download map from HD that keeps the rear cylinder cooler, I would recommend it.
The 2007 HD's are indeed geared too high, especially for sidecar. They are 2.79:1 in sixth gear diect drive. My 2004 which is 88 cubic inches, not 96" had originally 3.15:1. That was too high for my motor. I just changed the motor sprocket and clutch shell sprocket to lower it to 3.37:1. This is absolutely perfect for my rig. It will still do 85 mph and cruises nicely at 65 mph at 2500 rpm, right in the middle of the torque band.
There is some talk of aftermarket companies coming out with different motor sprockets for the 2007 bikes. They come from the factory with a 34 motor sprocket. The fix will be to drop two teeth down to 32 or even 3 to 31 to get down around 3.30:1.
Regards to all and Happy Trails!
I would certainly be interested in an aftermarket engine sprocket and clutch basket to get the gearing right- In the old Days HD did sidecar gearing for rigs, it was easier with Chains and sprockets - pity they don't learn from their own History, no I am not suggesting they go back to Chains!
Which is why I ordered the bike and sidecar as a unit in the hope that it would come with suitable gearing.Ha Ha. OK I know I get delusional!
Oh well fingers crossed that HD will produce a 31 tooth sprocket if not it will be up to the aftermarket boys,perhaps.
Paul
There is already a 32 tooth sprocket on the market. Check on Google.
OK so does this fit an 07 Bike.
http://www.elvisplace.com/html/parts/part.jsp?part_no=5754
And are we just waiting for a Clutch Basket and Belt to be able to able to achieve a more usable bike?
Paul
Originally written by sidecarbrit on 6/27/2007 11:06 AM
OK so does this fit an 07 Bike.
http://www.elvisplace.com/html/parts/part.jsp?part_no=5754
And are we just waiting for a Clutch Basket and Belt to be able to able to achieve a more usable bike?
Paul
That's a rear belt pulley. That's one way to change the gearing. It's far too expensive, however. If you were to do that on either a 2007 or earlier, it requires a different pulley and a different rear belt. It's also necessary to remove the entire primary drive the rear wheel, the swingarm the belt and so forth. Probbably around $1,200 all told.
The changes we've been speaking of are for the primary only for FL's up to 2006. You would change the motor sprocket and the clutch shell and sprocket with standard HD parts. For a 2007 bike, it's far different.
I believe that there are some aftermarket motor sprockets for the 2007's but the ones I've seen don't have the compensator drive on them - they are only solid sprockets. That's not good.
In either case, if you change the ratios of the rear belt and pulley drive, your speedometer is going to read incorrectly since the speed is detected by the speed sensor which is in the transmission.
Why can't you just put a larger sprocket on the rear to gear it down? That would be cheaper. I have a 2007 Fatboy, and for the most part I ride in fifth gear, because it seems like I need to be going 80 to use 6th. I don't have a hack on it though.
Mike
Originally written by quack947 on 6/27/2007 2:51 PM
Why can't you just put a larger sprocket on the rear to gear it down? That would be cheaper. I have a 2007 Fatboy, and for the most part I ride in fifth gear, because it seems like I need to be going 80 to use 6th. I don't have a hack on it though.
Mike
I don't know what teeth are on the rear belt of a 2007 FL. If you could find a larger rear sprocket, you would also need a belt and the labor I described just above. Also, as mentioned, your speedometer would be off. they make units to calibrate them but they are $$$$$.
