It seems that after about 5 years on a Ural and then Harley with Liberty hack I am still tweaking the set up trying to get good tire wear and the best handling.
Maybe it is because I drive a little faster than I used to or the wife is gaining weight (hope she doesn't read that) but the rig seems to pull a little more to the right at 55-60 so I increased the lean out a little. Then I noticed that the side car tire is wearing out unevenly, and in my opinion, too quickly on the outboard edge. I am not a hellcat on wheels so it isn't from taking left hand corners at speed. Only have 7300 on the hack tire an I am not sure it will pass inspection.
Suggestions?
With a loaded car and high crowned roads this could be normal.
Have you checked the toe-in and asked Pete if it is the correct number for your setup?
As far as lean-out I think he likes about 1 degree.
No movement in any of the chassis connections?
Sidecar tire in balance?
Is the bike's rear wheel in alignment with the front wheel?
Are you showing extra wear on the rear bike tire?
Lonnie
Hi Lonnie,
Thanks for taking the time to help me troubleshoot this. I have replied to your queries in order.
No, the pull still exists on a smooth highway situation with very little crown.
I changed the toe in to a lesser amount last year after scrubbing away my pusher in about 4000 miles. The wear on that was noticeably inboard. Because of the wear pattern and decreasing the toe in I increased the lean out at that time and leveled the hack
I am way over 1 degree now. At 1 degree I get a very noticeable pull to the right.
All connections are tight.
Sidecar tire wear is even and all on the outboard side of the tire.
I hope so. To check this to the swing arm as specified by Harley I would have to tear off the rear sidecar mounts. The bike only had 1000 miles on it when I bought it and I assumed the rear wheel alignment would be correct from the factory. I have been careful in adjusting the belt tension and when replacing the rear tire to make sure I adjusted the rear axel tensioning bolts equally.
I have about 3,300 on my present pusher and it has good tread left. That is an improvement over the last pusher, but the wear is once again off center toward the inboard side of the tire.
I forgot to mention that I installed the Liberty raked triple trees at about 2500 miles.
At the rate I am going I have to change the tires and the oil at about the same time. Ouch!!
Maybe I missed it, but is the sidecar wheel vertical when the bike and hack are loaded as in normal use? When you set your leanout, you did this with the suspension compressed on all three wheels(driver and passenger aboard)?
Yep, But I guess I am now going to set according to tire wear. I just set my hack wheel a little inboard from plumb as the wear was on the outboard side ans added a bit more lean out as the greater wear on the pusher is still on the inboard side of the center.
Also, although I love the retro look of the wide white wall Dunlop tires they have a wicked round profile that wears the center out quickly on a sidecar rig. The Shinko 240 whitewall seems to have a flatter tread and seems to be wearing better than the Dunlop I took off the pusher. I might have to sacrifice style for function and replace the sidecar tire with a Shinko also.
>>>Yep, But I guess I am now going to set according to tire wear. I just set my hack wheel a little inboard from plumb as the wear was on the outboard side ans added a bit more lean out as the greater wear on the pusher is still on the inboard side of the center. <<<
When changing lean out be sure to recheck the camber of the sidecar wheel after doing so. When a bike is leaned out the lower mounts for the sidecar are raised which will move th esidecar wheel out from vertical. This is more evident on some rigs than others. If th esidecar wheel leans away from the bike at the top it can increase a pull toward th esidecar and also creatre a weird tire wear pattern.
Toe in should also be rechecked after leaning the bike in or out. If a rig's toe in goes into toe out it will cause a pull to the sidecar side. It a rig's toe in increases it will show up as tire wear but may not be detected in how it handles.
I guess I am missing something in your post gnm109. Aren't all rear wheels 90 degrees to the horizontal frame? If you set the rear frame tube horizontal how do accomplish lean out? Doesn't that throw the frame tube off horizontal and the wheel out of true vertical position. I am confused??
With 3/4 toe in I was really eating my pusher and one half degree in lean would make my rig pull way hard to the right. I have over 1 degree lean out and 3/8 toe in and my pusher is still wearing slightly inboard of center.
Maybe I expect too much from my tires. I almost always have a passenger and am now at 7500 miles on the sidecar tire. My neighbor has a Fatboy and says he doesn't get much better than that on his rear tire doing 2 up all the time. Many things like, road crown, HP, driving style, load, curves etc must affect tire wear. So what do others get from their rear tires and sidecar tires on average?
Wondering on the Harley s with the rubber mounted drive train if you make changes to the aliment how it would affect the set up? On a Harley you can tweak it. They even make a tool for doing this. I might be talking out of my backside as I am so new to sidecars but thought I would ask.
Wondering on the Harley s with the rubber mounted drive train if you make changes to the aliment how it would affect the set up? On a Harley you can tweak it. They even make a tool for doing this. I might be talking out of my backside as I am so new to sidecars but thought I would ask.
Wondering on the Harley s with the rubber mounted drive train if you make changes to the aliment how it would affect the set up? On a Harley you can tweak it. They even make a tool for doing this. I might be talking out of my backside as I am so new to sidecars but thought I would ask.
What does Harley recommend for a set up or a starting point? I have a service manual coming.
I have a magnetic base protractor for checking aliment on Harley s rubber mounted models. Use it to check and make sure the front and rear disc are the same. Thanks for the information and hope to be going to pick the side car up this coming week. It is about 300 miles away so it will be a good day ordeal. I will take plenty of blankets and tie down straps.
Note to scrinch..(original poster):
I think, from reading your posts , you have your head around things pretty well. Please do not become confused by this discussion drifting into Harley sidedcar setups. The final results are what counts. Harley sidecars have no suspension on them whereas yours does. Due to this the static setup for a Harley sidecar will more than likely be different than yours will be. I would surely give pete Larsen a call and move forward from there.
gnm109 - 4/17/2010 8:02 PM
claude #3563 - 4/17/2010 5:58 PM
Note to scrinch..(original poster):
I think, from reading your posts , you have your head around things pretty well. Please do not become confused by this discussion drifting into Harley sidedcar setups. The final results are what counts. Harley sidecars have no suspension on them whereas yours does. Due to this the static setup for a Harley sidecar will more than likely be different than yours will be. I would surely give pete Larsen a call and move forward from there.I took out all of my extraneous Harley information. Thanks also for reminding me for the umpteenth time that the Harley-Davidson sidecar frame has no suspensiion. LOL.
🙂
Not reminding you and definately not a Harley 'slam' at all. Just a little concerned for those who may be new and have not realized that initial setup figures can vary quite a bit between a rigid sidecar and a sprung one. 🙂
I just talked to a friend of mine that sells and installs sidecars and he told me BIG difference in setting up a HD sidecar and others. His shop name is Wark Shop as his last name is Wark. He is in Ohio and I am in Georgia. He all so directed me to another friend that has a HD sidecar who is all so close to me and suggested I talk to him. Yes I do not think the HD sidecar changed a lot in the past 50 years or longer LOL. Sorry if we got off topic but some great information and I thank all for the input.
