I took a short 40 mile drive yesterday with my sons. They both ride Valkyries and are not real aggressive riders (ages 43 and 49). I'm riding my Valk/Spyder with about 80 pounds of ballast, 12 inches of trail and a 57 inch tread width (maximim that I can get.) When we got back I asked them for input. They tell me I'm too slow in the curves. We don't have many curves in my area.
MY Question. Will a sidecar rig (with no working passenger) "take" curves at any speeds close to speeds two wheelers (or trikes) can? Opinions, comments, etc.
I realize this depends on a lot of things. As for me, I'm really cautious to slow down before I enter curves, pick a line, read the road and accel through the curves just as I did when riding on two wheels all these years. I have to admit that I ride less aggressively at 79 than I once did. This is my first season driving a rig and I haven't flown the chair yet. I haven't taken a course yet( there is one in Louisville Ky, about 300 miles) but have read and reread Kendall, Hough, and all that I can get my hands on about sidecars.
Wayne
Wayne,
Speed is a demanding master.
I too ride a large bike (Yamaha Roadstar) with a 'car. I am making an assumption that when you said you have 12" of trail you meant 12" of lead. If you have 12" of trail, get a new front end.
I would suggest (take this with many grains of salt) a wheel lead of 7 to 9". Unlike you, I setup my rig as narrow as possible - which isn't all that narrow due to saddlebags and floorboards. Finally, you have to be comfortable "flying the chair" if you are going to ride aggressively. (My wife doesn't like it when I "fly" with her in the car!)
Remember, there's nothing wrong with reducing your pace and riding at a comfortable speed. If you continually push the envelope eventually you will be tested.
DSP3
Nuts, I meant 12" of lead. Since the Spyder's wheel is almost amidship that, along with the hardware, won't allow less. My trail is about 3.5 inches with the Steerite.
I'm keeping in mind what my local dealer said. About the time you get overconfident, things happen. I'm playing it cool for now.
ride within your limits. i ride much slower with sidecar than on two wheels. it's a different vehicle and i don't even try to keep up with the two wheelers. i enjoy the slower pace the sidecar offers as far as enjoying the ride, viewing the scenery, etc. for my two wheel fun- i just bought a new suzuki hayabusa. when i bring that out my riding partners just see tailights. when i ride my harley electraglide/harley ultra rig i just hang in the back of the pack. i enjoy both. 2 very different rides.
I have been riding with a rig for only about 6 weeks (600miles) on my 1971 750 4 k1 with cargo box. When I first started the members of the local side car club suggested that i keep about 100 lbs of ballast and always obey the post speed limit on courves. This I believe is good advise. I do ride my regular MC a bit more aggressively esp in the turns but the over all comfort is better with the rig. It is so much better that I just sold the Rebel. Jim in Denver
Originally written by solo1 on 5/29/2007 8:35 AM
I took a short 40 mile drive yesterday with my sons. They both ride Valkyries and are not real aggressive riders (ages 43 and 49). I'm riding my Valk/Spyder with about 80 pounds of ballast, 12 inches of trail and a 57 inch tread width (maximim that I can get.) When we got back I asked them for input. They tell me I'm too slow in the curves. We don't have many curves in my area.
MY Question. Will a sidecar rig (with no working passenger) "take" curves at any speeds close to speeds two wheelers (or trikes) can? Opinions, comments, etc.
I realize this depends on a lot of things. As for me, I'm really cautious to slow down before I enter curves, pick a line, read the road and accel through the curves just as I did when riding on two wheels all these years. I have to admit that I ride less aggressively at 79 than I once did. This is my first season driving a rig and I haven't flown the chair yet. I haven't taken a course yet( there is one in Louisville Ky, about 300 miles) but have read and reread Kendall, Hough, and all that I can get my hands on about sidecars.
Wayne
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Wayne,
PRACTICE! Don't be afriad to add more ballast for additional stability. Face it if you had a passenegr in the thing he or she would weigh more than 80 pounds. You can practice without the ballast to get the feel of things if you wish.
Your track width is good and lends to stability. Your lead is a little much IMHO for a bike that is as large as a Valkarie. More lead does tend to let the sidecar come up a little easier in right handers but what you have should not be a huge issue.
As far as your question goes...a rig like yours if balanced right will run with the solo bikes in the turns under normal (sane) conditions.
Your technique of entering the turns at a safe pace and accerating from there is good. Keep that up and soon your speed will increase.
You should go to a safe place and do the deal whre you ride around in circles to the right and left. Increase speed in the right tunrs or decrease the radius of the circle until you feel the sidecar come up.
Your first reaction will be to correct by turning to the left..this is a normal reaction and will bring the sidecar down but cause you to run wide as the rig will turn left. Forget all about the countersteering /steering reversion and all of that junk you may have read about in Hough's book. Just do the exercise in a safe empty parking lot and you will get the feel for it pretty quickly. Keep p[racticing it. As you get more seat time it will not be upsetting to you as it may be at first.
To get through a right hander as I mentioned you already have the right idea.
Let me add to it a little. When entering a right turn do not dive for the bottom of the turn early. In other words hang out by the centerline as long as you can before turning in. The idea is that by doing this you will be able to brake more going in and also be able to see farther through the turn before comitting to it. It is called 'taking a late apex'. Once you enter the turn you will have already determined you are at a safe speed to make it through the thing. At that point you can accelrate through it allowing the drag of the sidecar under accelration to help turn the rig.
If you were diligent to practice in the safe area as mentioend earlier you will have aquired a feel of what it is like for the sidecar to come up. Many newbies never take the time to practice this and will putt through right handers thinking they are 'on the edge' of control when in reality are not even close to it. Some have actually 'corrected' by turning away from the turn when it wasn't necessary at all. That can get ou into big trouble real easy for no reason. Again, forget abount the steering reversion deal. IF YOU HAVE ENTERED A TURN AT A SAFE SPEED YOU WILL BE UNDER CONTROL WHEN ACCELERATING THROUGH IT !
If the sidecar wheel feels like it is getting light under acceration th
Thanks everyone. I suspected that sidecaring slows the pace and that's good. I just had to get comfortable with it.
The VRCC club has a lot of "more is better" members, more miles, more individualism, more speed, more agressive riding, etc. We even have two members that regularly ride side by side through Deals Gap on their Valks.
I'll enjoy this at my own pace, which is sedate, befitting my age, LOL! Quality time.
Wayne
DSP3 wrote:
>>If you continually push the envelope eventually you will be tested.<<
This is true but we need to realize that 'pushing the envelope' so to speak is the only way we can advance our skill levels. All of us began riding (driving ?) sidecars with a very small 'envelope' of knowledge or skill related to a sidecar and it's operation. Reading is good but will never give us any experience in real life unles we practice. In order to enlarge our skill envelope we must practice diligently...i.e. 'push the envelope' so to speak.
Taking a course is a good thing no doubt. If one gets a cetificate that is a just reward for passing the thing....but...Taking a course will do one thing for you. It will give you a little knowledge and help you to learn how to and what to practice in order for you to 'push your envelope' on your own.
PRACTICE is the key..do it safely and often and you will be doing yourself and your loved ones a huge favor.
Originally written by solo1 on 5/30/2007 4:41 AM
We even have two members that regularly ride side by side through Deals Gap on their Valks.
let them go- not safe.dangerous. soon to donate parts to the "tree of shame".
I agree. Except for the Interstate, there are few plastic parts on Valks and that means hard parts and hard injuries. I wish them luck.!
Wayne
Originally written by solo1 on 5/29/2007 5:35 AM
I took a short 40 mile drive yesterday with my sons. They both ride Valkyries and are not real aggressive riders (ages 43 and 49). I'm riding my Valk/Spyder with about 80 pounds of ballast, 12 inches of trail and a 57 inch tread width (maximim that I can get.) When we got back I asked them for input. They tell me I'm too slow in the curves. We don't have many curves in my area.
MY Question. Will a sidecar rig (with no working passenger) "take" curves at any speeds close to speeds two wheelers (or trikes) can? Opinions, comments, etc.
I realize this depends on a lot of things. As for me, I'm really cautious to slow down before I enter curves, pick a line, read the road and accel through the curves just as I did when riding on two wheels all these years. I have to admit that I ride less aggressively at 79 than I once did. This is my first season driving a rig and I haven't flown the chair yet. I haven't taken a course yet( there is one in Louisville Ky, about 300 miles) but have read and reread Kendall, Hough, and all that I can get my hands on about sidecars.
Wayne
You really can't keep up with a pair of solo Valkryies with your sidecar. Trying to do so is a bad idea. They said that you're too slow in curves but what they really mean you're slower than they are. Comparing a sidecar to a solo bike is like comparing apples to oranges.
I used to take my sidecar on runs with the local HOG chapter. I soon discovered that I was not going to be able to keep up with people going through 50 mph corners at 75 mph so I stopped trying. Now I typically ride on my own. I stay away from group riding with solo bikes. They don't mix very well snce the solo riders aren't going to cut you any slack and if you try to match their speed, you can easily get into trouble.
So the answer to your question is your sidecar probably can't safely match the speed of a solo bike through corners. I said "safely"......and you probably would be well advised not to try.
(Now I expect that someone will come on and tell me that they can beat a solo bike through a corner. That concept goes against everything I've learned about sidecars over many years. I guess I'd better put on my flame suit, eh?)
My 2 cents.
No flames here. You have reinforced my change in thinking. A more leisurely way of ridng has been given to me in sidecaring. I've always ridden my own ride (the one exception got me deeply into the pucker factor)and this is more reason to do so.
In fact, just yesterday I explored the gravel roads here in Northeast Indiana. I never tried that on the two wheeled Valkyrie because of the 800 pound weight. I parked the rig in the shade of a wooded area right in the middle of the road. While I tweaked the lean angle with my big wrench, the only sound was the birds, squirrels, and the ticking of the Valk as it cooled. Gravel roads here are not popular here so aren't traveled much.
Sidecaring has opened up more interesting back roads for me but I can still haul the rig at interstate speeds with the Valk as a great tug. The best of two worlds and I'm saving my knees to boot!
Now to practice, practice, practice.
wayne
Originally written by solo1 on 6/1/2007 9:47 AM
No flames here. You have reinforced my change in thinking. A more leisurely way of ridng has been given to me in sidecaring. I've always ridden my own ride (the one exception got me deeply into the pucker factor)and this is more reason to do so.
In fact, just yesterday I explored the gravel roads here in Northeast Indiana. I never tried that on the two wheeled Valkyrie because of the 800 pound weight. I parked the rig in the shade of a wooded area right in the middle of the road. While I tweaked the lean angle with my big wrench, the only sound was the birds, squirrels, and the ticking of the Valk as it cooled. Gravel roads here are not popular here so aren't traveled much.
Sidecaring has opened up more interesting back roads for me but I can still haul the rig at interstate speeds with the Valk as a great tug. The best of two worlds and I'm saving my knees to boot!
Now to practice, practice, practice.wayne
Yes, that's the way I see it. The good side is that with a sidecar you'll not only see more scenery but you will actually notice that there is scenery to be seen.
"I parked the rig in the shade of a wooded area right in the middle of the road. While I tweaked the lean angle with my big wrench, the only sound was the birds, squirrels, and the ticking of the Valk as it cooled."
Parked in the middle of the road in the shade, Wayne? You're lucky you didn't hear the roar of your VRCC Club Buddy's bikes coming at you (The ones that like to ride side by side through Deal's Gap).
If you're looking to see 80 you might want to pull off the road next time you tweak the rig.
Lonnie
You had to have been there Lonnie. This was officially a road but it was actually a one lane path with no houses. In short, a road leading to nowhere. There's lots of them here in Hoosierland.
C'mon, do you actually think that I'd be dumb enough after all these years to park in the middle of a road????? LOL.
Wayne
