Jay Geise wrote:
>>We have fixed both bent and broken 15mm Velorex axles.<>
BTW: Why would anyone "fix" a bent axle that was caused by overloading or impact?
I certainly wouldn't consider doing it. I would replace it with a new or larger unit, dependant on the cause of failure.<<
Jay, I am quite interested too on how you 'fix' a bent or broken axle. I assume you meant replace?? Also, curious what caused them to bend or break?
I abused my Velorex like a fool and it did fine. I finally got nervous about it after killing the shock (actusally broke in half..go figire?) and had to u-bolt the swingarm to the sidecar frame (should I say ..NOT RECOMENDED) to get on up to a rally in Canada. All I could think of was the sheer abuse that little axle had taken and was now taking so much more running with essentially a rigid suspension! Got it mickey moused a little better with a scrap shock at the rally up there and made it home fine. Not long after that 'adventure' I put a plymouth spindle on it..swithched to a car tire ..added a torsion bar suspension and then began the abuse cycle all over again with renewed confidence. That rig is still on the road today and doing well with a diferent owner.
Yes, We up grade to 20mm,or use to now that Velorex has the parts we have not had any requests.
How they were broken or bent I can not say, We do not normaly have Velorex sidecars in our shop so the ones we have done were done mail order as much of our custom work is.
Jay Giese
Dauntless Motors Corporation
www.dauntlessmotors.com
thanks for you reply.... please explain.." considerable" amount of ballast.the velorex 565 is listed as having a curb weight of 175# From what I've seen on the available market this seems to be in the acceptable range. what is the acceptiable range for ballast? If you have a driver @150# or a driver @ 300# ballast is going to be considerably different. THANKS, appreciate your input
Rather than use a term like "considerable ballast" I would consider a term "usable" or "acceptable" ballast - here defined as being just the amount of ballast you need to ensure your own safety given the type of driving you do and the type of loading you normally carry. Do not drive another's style. Drive your own style.
This is of course a very personal choice as some people are very new and cautious, others are more experienced and drive faster. Some take righthanders very slowly and will not allow or permit the sidecar wheel to come up or float. Others allow the sidecar wheel to float above the road surface an inch or so under very controlled conditions. Some will apply body english or shift position. Some will apply a bit of front brake while turning right, others some throttle, others some sidecar brake only before the right curve to set up the rig. Some a combination of many of these techniques. There are many factors so it all depends. Like, how long is a piece of string.
Typical ballast weights are from 25 to 60 pounds, but in extreme cases where there have been an overweight driver of 350 pounds a ballast of 150 to 250 pounds might be necessary - but this is an extreme example. My buddy in Canada, for example.
You should use the minimum ballast that you feel comfortable with for your driving style and comfort level while practicing in a safe environment to improve your skills so you can with practice gradually reuce your ballast needs - but always err on the side of safety. If in doubt - add an extra 20 or 30 pounds - it will never do any harm.
THANKS tink I got it now
what it all boils down to is the usual ball park formula of sidecar weight equals 1/3 of the total bike weight, with rider.
In other words, for example, bike and driver weighs 1000 pounds...sidecar should be around 330 pounds, for safety.
Excellent post Hal..pretty much covers it.
Yes Hal,
Now if we could dispose of that race bike term of " reverse or counter steering" it would be a lot easier to learn to Drive a sidecar rig. If anyone was around a Scoop mobile of the 50's era, that was reverse steering!
David
The term countersteering was the very worst thing that ever happened to sidecar training when it was introduced. It was NEVER in ANY of the ORIGINAL sidecar training programs and was not introduced until someone deceided to "spice it up a bit" in the early 1990s or perhaps late 1980s.
It has no application to sidecars whatsoever. One STEERS a sidecar outfit in the exact same fashion as one steers ANY 2-track vehicle whether it be a car, a truck, or a SUV or a 18-wheeler.
Of course, in the event the sidecar wheel comes off the ground an inch or so, as long as the center of gravity of the sidecar outfit lies towards the sidecar as is almost always the case, then one just continues to steer in the normal fashion, that is, to turn the bars to the right to keep the rig turning to the right, in exactly the same fashion as a sprint car driver keeps turning to the right even if the inside wheel comes off the track in a spirited right turn on the track. No drama there.
And of course, one can make ANY 2-track vehicle balance on a single track for parade purposes or for tricks or for movie stunts as is seen in famous movies where 18-wheelers are countersteered on a single track - but this is not taught in any commercial trucking school, nor is this skill taught in any junior high school for autos. There just is no practical situation where this skill set can be used, outside of a parade ground. Far better you practice real skills to safely handle both right and left handers. These do include getting a feel for balance of the rig among many other techniques, but none include countersteering.
Originally written by hal77079 on 10/18/2005 9:30 PM
Rather than use a term like "considerable ballast" I would consider a term "usable" or "acceptable" ballast - here defined as being just the amount of ballast you need to ensure your own safety given the type of driving you do and the type of loading you normally carry. Do not drive another's style. Drive your own style.
If in doubt - add an extra 20 or 30 pounds - it will never do any harm.
Well put. As an example, a few weeks ago I had the chance to ride Sheldon Aubut's beautiful Moto Guzzi Jackal/Flying Tiger rig. It scared the he** out of me. Though he and I are about the same size, I felt I could lean left at a stop sign and nearly bring the sidecar off the ground. It is setup very light. But Sheldon likes to bring it up and is comfortable with it that way. My Valkyrie, on the other hand, is set wide enough that it takes a real effort to lift the car. You almost need to be seriously trying before it will come up. I like it that way. My sidecar is usually empty and I love to ride at night. Up here that means dodging lots of furry creatures, some bigger than me, on the road.
I, like Sheldon, carried no ballast. When the professional test driver who drove my rig for MOTORCYCLE in the UK did his infamous road test titled the "Tilting Laverda" he said " I swear if you just wispered the words a 'left turn' Hal's rig would at once tilt skywards' - but - it is is different strokes for different folks. (The chair was on the left then in defference to the UK laws).
There is a BIG difference between how I drive, and how I suggest others should drive and for very good reason. Lawsuits notwitstanding. It takes many years to gain the experience necessary to make the rig perform as it should, coupled with having the right type of machinery. The average newbie comes with years of two-wheeler baggage that must be entirely forgotten before we can make a sidecarist out of him and often he is a very unwilling to lose that baggage. Also, his rig is not set up for the type of high spirited driving possible. Therefore, any public remarks must of necessity be tempered by such considerations.
However, once contact has been made, and the newbie has proven himself in battle as a worthy and spirited combatant by years of accident free sidecar driving then he is advanced into the upper knowledge chambers where he can handle that knowledge more responsibly.
Hal,
I’ve been reading and studying all that I can get my hands on. The counter steer, race reverse counter steer etc. etc….very good stuff!
you said,
”However, once contact has been made, and the newbie has proven himself in battle as a worthy and spirited combatant by years of accident free sidecar driving then he is advanced into the upper knowledge chambers where he can handle that knowledge more responsibly”.
I haven’t received my new side car rig yet, it should be here any day now. This will be my absolute first time on a sidecar rig hack…. or what ever you call it, but back to the steering thing, if I want to turn to the right, will the front tire keep turning when I push on the handle bars, is that a counter steer thing? Do you think I’m ready for the upper chamber of knowledge stuff yet?. ?
Keep it simple. For ALL NORMAL SITUATIONS YOU WILL EVER EXPERIENCE while driving a sidecar rig, you will ALWAYS encounter NORMAL steering. Turn the bars to the right to turn right - just as you would your SUV or your auto or ANY 2-track vehicle.
You must FORGET all solo turning or steering manourvers. This is the hardest. The more years one has had riding a solo the more difficult it is to make the transition as all this must be forgotten or relearned. It is much easier to instruct a little old lady willing to learn who has never been astride a solo bike than a 40-year old veteran soloist who insists on thinking intuitively with his experience of the past.
Duck,
The other day I took a person to a parking lot who had never driven a sidecar rig before. After taking him for a ride and talking things over we switched places. He took to the steering part quickly. In fact quicker than most do. The reason? He had quite a bit of experience with an ATV. He was already 'de-programmed'from having only solo bik eexperience so to speak. If you have ridden trikes, ATV or the like I am convinced that th ebasic steering hurdle that many have to overcome when switching to a sidecar rig will be insignificant. I am only talking about turning right to go right etc here. The oddites of a sidecar are still a challenge but with some practice following the study you have already had you should do just fine. The key is to practice what you have learned off of the printed page...forget about thinking you are on a motorcycle as you are not ..and do not get overconfident. If you do this and apply yourself it won't be long to where you will begin to 'comunicate' with your sidecar rig. Sounds goofy but you will find you and your rig carrying on quite a conversation 🙂
Hal, Claude,
Lighten up guys, I was just being a smart alick. Hal, to me, you sounded a little self righteous
Hal said,
“the newbie has proven himself in battle as a worthy and spirited combatant by years of accident free sidecar driving then he is advanced into the upper knowledge chambers where he can handle that knowledge more responsibly”…….
Duck said,
back to the steering thing, if I want to turn to the right, will the front tire keep turning when I push on the handle bars, is that a counter steer thing? ….. the correct answer is …of course it will keep turning, Guess I aint that funny.
Claude, seriously….. check out this site ,,, http://www.tlb.org/scooter.html probably another bad idea but try to see the gyro thing applied to a rig??????
