I'm curious about this. I have yet to hear a manufacturer state that you can't carry a passenger on a properly balanced rig. How do you feel? Do you carry passengers on the back seat of your sidecar bike? You can choose more than one option.
Depends on the passenger, depends on the driver, depends on the rig. It is not a good idea, in general, and I would never recommend it to a beginner.
But it has been done and it can be done safely. It isn't much different than an obese rider with no passenger or ballast in the hack, and that is not an uncommon sight to see.
http://adventuresidecar.com/sidecars_in_the_news.htm
I agree with Vernon. The passenger shoudl be capable of hanging on though.
Heck people have toured the world this way. The issue is when the uninformed stick a passenger on the pillion and do not know what a difference it can makle in handling...there have been deaths caused by this. Not caused by passenger on back but by ignorance of weight distribution and it's effects on the rig. Properly setupo it can be done. Is it recomended ? No, not really . Is it preferred? No.
its all the difference in the world than an obese driver.
that driver is fully aware of what he is doing [or should be anyway] and when he makes a sudden turn he will compenstae for it by leaning with the rig. he will NOT be leaning off the wrong side of a bike!
the passenger on the other hand, if not aware of what happens, WILL be leaning off the bike, throwing it off balance.
I agree 2 up has been done many times, but it is NOT reccomended.
Mike mentioned that manufacturers dont mention not doing it. they dont endorse sidecars either.
bikes are built for single or 2 up riding, on 2 wheels, that lean into the turns. sidecars are a totally different animals and should be treated as such. dont push your luck.
Originally written by RedMenace on 8/30/2006 1:04 AM
Depends on the passenger, depends on the driver, depends on the rig. It is not a good idea, in general, and I would never recommend it to a beginner.
But it has been done and it can be done safely. It isn't much different than an obese rider with no passenger or ballast in the hack, and that is not an uncommon sight to see.
Originally written by Bob in Wis on 8/30/2006 8:03 AM
its all the difference in the world than an obese driver.
that driver is fully aware of what he is doing [or should be anyway] and when he makes a sudden turn he will compenstae for it by leaning with the rig. he will NOT be leaning off the wrong side of a bike!
the passenger on the other hand, if not aware of what happens, WILL be leaning off the bike, throwing it off balance.
I agree 2 up has been done many times, but it is NOT reccomended.
Mike mentioned that manufacturers dont mention not doing it. they dont endorse sidecars either.
bikes are built for single or 2 up riding, on 2 wheels, that lean into the turns. sidecars are a totally different animals and should be treated as such. dont push your luck.
Read my post again Bob, then name one sidecar manufacturer that doesn't endorse sidecars. :0)
Originally written by SidecarMike on 8/30/2006 10:54 AM
Originally written by Bob in Wis on 8/30/2006 8:03 AM
its all the difference in the world than an obese driver.
that driver is fully aware of what he is doing [or should be anyway] and when he makes a sudden turn he will compenstae for it by leaning with the rig. he will NOT be leaning off the wrong side of a bike!
the passenger on the other hand, if not aware of what happens, WILL be leaning off the bike, throwing it off balance.
I agree 2 up has been done many times, but it is NOT reccomended.
Mike mentioned that manufacturers dont mention not doing it. they dont endorse sidecars either.
bikes are built for single or 2 up riding, on 2 wheels, that lean into the turns. sidecars are a totally different animals and should be treated as such. dont push your luck.Read my post again Bob, then name one sidecar manufacturer that doesn't endorse sidecars. :0)
Mike you didnt mention SIDECAR manufacturers. .I thought you meant bikes.
one of the reasons i installed the sidecar was to include our son(s) on rides. i'm running an 02 flh with a 98 ultra classic s/c. it is set up right and is heavy and very stable (just not as fast as i would like-solo!)
i weigh 295# my wife 120# my 6 yr old stepson 40#. with my wife on the back and my son in the sidecar i cruise very responsibly and we all enjoy our outings. i don't have a problem with it and we certainly don't need to legislate "safety"- there's already enough of that. i.e seatbelt laws,helmet laws,etc.i have done things at times solo that were just wrong on a bike that i would never recommend but it's all about choices and accepting the consequences.
Ride with skill, knowledge and practice,( allthough a little luck helps). Never assume unless you want to-(make an-ass- of -u-and-me-).
David (with his big old wooden spoon)
Originally written by Bob in Wis on 8/30/2006 7:03 AM
its all the difference in the world than an obese driver.
that driver is fully aware of what he is doing [or should be anyway] and when he makes a sudden turn he will compenstae for it by leaning with the rig. he will NOT be leaning off the wrong side of a bike!
the passenger on the other hand, if not aware of what happens, WILL be leaning off the bike, throwing it off balance.
I agree 2 up has been done many times, but it is NOT reccomended.
Mike mentioned that manufacturers dont mention not doing it. they dont endorse sidecars either.
bikes are built for single or 2 up riding, on 2 wheels, that lean into the turns. sidecars are a totally different animals and should be treated as such. dont push your luck.
Bob, I repeat: it depends on the passenger, depends on the driver, depends on the rig.
If a passenger can not be counted on to remain alert and to behave as instructed by the driver at all times, including when cornering, they don't belong on the back of a bike, with or without a sidecar. While they may upset a sidecar cornering by moving abruptly or the wrong direction, they are even more likely to contribute to an accident as a passenger on a solo bike. This has nothing to do with sidecars and everything to do with choosing not to ride with an age inappropriate or impaired individual as a passenger.
I totally agree with you, weight distribution and handling is better if you don't have a passenger on the back of the bike( It is also better if you don't put your battery in your saddlebag or strap fuel tanks on the rear rack of the bike). It is not recommended practice and it is not for beginners. You should modify your drivng and your suspension and your ballast if you feel you must ride three up with a passenger on the pillion.
The German military did log hundreds of thousands of miles three up, with full gear and weapons, on all sorts of surfaces, in battalion sized groups. They did thier training 3 up on and off road. It can be done. You need to be careful, you need to know what you are about, you need to know it will adversely affect the handling.
Originally written by RedMenace on 8/31/2006 9:01 PM
[I totally agree with you, weight distribution and handling is better if you don't have a passenger on the back of the bike( It is also better if you don't put your battery in your saddlebag or strap fuel tanks on the rear rack of the bike). It is not recommended practice and it is not for beginners. You should modify your drivng and your suspension and your ballast if you feel you must ride three up with a passenger on the pillion.
The German military did log hundreds of thousands of miles three up, with full gear and weapons, on all sorts of surfaces, in battalion sized groups. They did thier training 3 up on and off road. It can be done. You need to be careful, you need to know what you are about, you need to know it will adversely affect the handling. [/QUOTE
Red, you mentioned the battery I have in my right saddlebag. that is a great place to put it....low, to the rear, and inside the bike weight.[over the rear SC mount]
also the aux gas tank , whick is NOT strapped to the rear luggage rack, it is in the same place [placed directly behind my SOLO saddle] a would-be 150 pound passenger would be sitting and moving all over the back. [at times].the tank only weighs 25 pounds when full, compared to a 140-200 pound passenger.much safer.
then you mention the military guys ...all hail them for their great job. but I'm sure they were not out on family cruises like present SC riders are.
They were FULLY aware of their environment ,and paid very strict attention to everything that was going on. better be to save their lives. that is exactly how present pillion passengers should behave...but...they dont..not 100%. not every minute of the day. someday they will be surprised!!
do it if you choose...but I will be VERY happy if only one couple will read this stuff and realize their passengers are worth more than the cost of a little wider SC.
I ride three on a rig quite often, when I am going very slow and in a perade Most of the time the pasenger in the car is in a wheel chair and the one on back is a pearent or guardian
Ron in Co
Vernon wrote:
>>Bob, I repeat: it depends on the passenger, depends on the driver, depends on the rig.<<
This IS the bottom line. To add to it we must say that the main reason a passenger on the back is not recomended is that some have stuck a pasenger on the rear pillion and did not know what a difference it would make in the handling of the rig they were on. Weigth distribution and even setup are inportant on any rig and adding a passenger is making any given rig a differen tanimal. THAT animal can bite the unwary.
As far as a passenger falling off to the side that can happen even on a solo bike with a dozing passenger. Some have belabored this issue to the point of saying some open side sidecars are dangerous. This to me is getting towards the ridiculous.
Bob, if you were concerned about a friends Sidebike Comet being open a while back you probably would really be horrified with some of the dual sport and adventure touring hacks.
Be safe , know your rig and when riding an outfit that is not familar to you get to know it too realizing all outfits are a little different. DO NOT just plop a person on the rear seat and 'go for it'. THAT can kill you.
It seems the whole issue is another case of risk acceptance. If you do not choose to accept the risk, take steps to avoid it. If you choose to accept the risk, manage the risk with skill and knowledge. This applies to riding a two wheel motorcycle with or without passengers, a sidecar rig with or without passengers or even driving a car. Although a whole lot of four wheel missile pilots have no concept of knowledge and skill.
Maybe we should all just stay home and talk about sidecars etc and not go out of the house. Course there is always the fear of a stry asteroid coming down or maybe we coudl Overdose on chips and dip.
Risk acceptance, management and education on what the risks are pretty much covers it Tom..good point!
I knew sprint car driver who got out of racing because he got concerned about the risks etc. Went to work full time in his own garage. After a month or so he was walking across the street in front of the shop and got hit by a truck.
Always sit down to take a shower so as not to slip.
BobZ, I did not specifically mention how you set your bike up and I did not say your practices are unsafe.
I said there are better places to put heavy loads than the back of the bike. You have more choices with a sidecar and handling will usually be improved by placing the weight inside the sidecar aft of the forward tipover line and as low as you can get it. The right saddlebag is certainly a better place for the battery than the left saddlebag. Better still would be the trunk of the sidecar or the sidecar chassis between the bike and the hack. The same is true for the extra fuel tank.
That doesn't mean where you suggest placing it is a bad compromise. Depends on the bike, depends on the driver...
Do keep an eye on your rear frame loop and rear shocks, and drive carefully, Bob 😉
