I have a Ural Patrol as my first rig. I like riding it. What I do not like is it's lack of the ability to go freeway speeds. My question is with other more powerful rigs does the darting around increase and if yes is it more or faster. I hope people will know what I mean by "darting around". Always putting some kind of input into the handle bars.
By "darting around", do you mean your rig wanders at a constant speed? Or it it just during acceleration and deceleration or when braking?
The tendency for the sidecar to lag upon acceleration and push ahead when braking is normal with a single wheel driven rig due to the slave wheel not being driven upon acceleration and no available engine braking when off the throttle. With your 2 wheel drive it should not do this since both wheels are pushing/slowing/braking the rig.
You may have an alignment problem. That is, not enough or too much toe-in on the sidecar or proper lean-out on the motorcycle.
With a well matched, more powerful bike with sidecar this push/ pull phenomenon will be present to some degree but it is easily controlled and with the sidecar set up correctly there will be no tendency to "wander".
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecar
You could try playing with air pressure in the fron ttire too. Sometimes a little change means a lot. If it has a leading link you might be unconciously oversteering it. Relax and see if it helps. If you are new to sidecars you are probably more tense than you think...this is normal.
Hack'n's advice is good too as usual.
Originally written by Hack'n on 1/23/2006 12:18 PM
With your 2 wheel drive it should not do this since both wheels are pushing/slowing/braking the rig.
A Patrol has part time 2WD, there is no differential. The hack wheel drive can be engaged and disengaged. 2WD, on a patrol, is not for use on dry pavement.
You would get the sidecar lag effect on acceleration with a Ural Patrol, with the hack wheel disengaged.
Dave
something is definitely wrong with your setup. At freeway speeds I can remove my hands from the bars and still track straight no 'darting around'
[this just for an example of course!]
loose head bearings, bad front tire, among things to check. plus corect lean out, and toe -in.
I did mean wandering it is slight. The lag and braking effects happen to all Sidecar rig? just to diffenent degrees My set-up is factory recomended set-up and checked 1 degree lean out and right now 3/8 toe-in. I just was thinking motorcycle faster you go the quicker things happen. But I do have to forget most every thing I know about motorcycle riding when I throw a leg over a hack.
I have found that at higher speeds the leading link front end on Urals tends to "dart" around. I suspect it is due to soft rubber bushings in the swing arm pivots.
Jay Giese
Dauntless Motors Corporation.
www.dauntlessmotors.om
I'm new enough still that I recall feeling what I called "twitchy" response to the steering. Namely, input to the handlebars was quick, and any irregularity of the road caused the rig to jump only so slightly. I was very concerned initially, but I knew that sidecars don't handle the same as anything else. Initially 50 mph felt quite the limit for me. I rode a lot, and I got used to the "twitchiness". In essence, it went away.
Now I don't even notice it at all, 20,000 miles later. I travel at highway speed with no issues. I learned to relax on the bars, which I'm sure helped a lot.
MikeS
I have an R1150GS Adv/ural rig that Jay built. It tracks perfect at all speeds, no darting around. I am 5'6" 110lbs and ride the rig all day on and off roads. It has plenty of power for all situations.
The lack of freeway speeds is exactly why we did not consider the Ural for a dual sport rig. Because living in So. Cal you have to be able to go freeway speeds even on back roads.
Cheers,
Jill
I've got Earles Forks on my rig... a little low speed wobble or twitching when I go from a driveway onto the road where there's a bit of height difference. On the road maybe various bumps or potholes will feel like they're "grabbing" or diverting the tire and make it shake a bit. I have a Russian front tire and it seems to like about 34lbs in front.
Is the freeway thing a matter of nerves, or it's underpowered and just won't get up there?
That may be the probem, don't throw your leg over the hack, put it between the two.
Initially I kept the oem steering trail (R1100GS/Ural) and all was stable -- and very stiff. Raked the front end to ease steering effort and found I was all over the road. A steering damper helped but much of it was extra steering input on my part. With time and milage all has become well. Reduced trail makes the steering much quicker and I just had to get used to it. Hopefully, a few more happy miles will solve your concerns. A friend had Wagner's Cycle Shop (www.wagnerscycle.us) change his Ural's rear end gearing to up his cruise speed.
Originally written by Danny on 2/4/2006 4:46 PM
Initially I kept the oem steering trail (R1100GS/Ural) and all was stable -- and very stiff. Raked the front end to ease steering effort and found I was all over the road. A steering damper helped but much of it was extra steering input on my part. With time and milage all has become well. Reduced trail makes the steering much quicker and I just had to get used to it. Hopefully, a few more happy miles will solve your concerns. A friend had Wagner's Cycle Shop (www.wagnerscycle.us) change his Ural's rear end gearing to up his cruise speed.
Danny,
Good post...This is common and is what I meant in my earlier post which said: " If it has a leading link you might be unconciously oversteering it. Relax and see if it helps. If you are new to sidecars you are probably more tense than you think...this is normal."
Quick and easy steering is nice but it does take a while to get used to it.
Reducing the trail for easier steering, then adding a damper seems counter productive unless head shake was uncontrollable. Adding a damper then, yes, but don't add one just to control oversteer. You are defeating the purpose of the trail reduction if the damper isn't necessary.
Lonnie
Originally written by Hack'n on 2/4/2006 11:38 PM
Reducing the trail for easier steering, then adding a damper seems counter productive unless head shake was uncontrollable. Adding a damper then, yes, but don't add one just to control oversteer. You are defeating the purpose of the trail reduction if the damper isn't necessary.
Lonnie
Agree 100 % Lonnie. To me adding a dampner shoudl be a last resort and then only set it up stiff enough to cure the problem. Have you ever ridden a leading link equipped bike with a dampner that seemed harder to steer than stock woudl have been?
