Hi Claude,
Okay, I'll give you that! I absolutely agree that you should know how to handle that situation. And that different rigs will behave differently. I guess it's just that deliberately riding around with the car up in the air stuff that I simply don't understand. (some people like roller coasters, too - but not me!!!!)
Connie
Hi Mark,
That's cool! We're staying at the Fairfield Ocean Walk, too. We don't own a timeshare, but we're renting one. We'll be there the 16th - 23rd. I won't know what unit until we check in, but we will definitely have to get together. (Makes me wish that I could have my rig there, too!)
Connie
Connie: I for one agree with you 100 percent. Flying the car is a skill that is not needed for any evasive skill on any normal or foreseeable situation in road usage. It is a circus stunt that can be performed with any car, SUV or 18-wheeler with a positrac or limited slip traction. All can be made to balance delicately on one set of its tracks or wheels.
You are correct. You have a two-track vehicle, admittedly, an off-center and lopsided two-track vehicle and therefore it does require a greater understanding of how to handle it correctly than any "balanced" vehicle like a solo or a car or even a trike.
Skills like being able drive into a righthander should be set by the user and not by the community. Some might slow down. Great. Others might use some throttle, or front braking, or allow the sidecar wheel to float gently a few inches above the ground, or some might agressively powerslide using dowenshifting and maximum torque. You must use what you feel is right for you. Never use someone elses technique. That will get you killed.
There is just too much BS on this topic and not enough on getting down to basics. Never overdrive. Slow down to enter. Pick your exit points. If you are unhappy with lifting your sidecar wheel, then do not do it.
However, you might, for your own peace of mind, go to a large quite parking lot, where with a friend, practice driving in a circle of about 30 feet diameter, to the right, slowly, then gradually picking up speed, to where the chair is picked up a few inches. But be ready to slow down at any time. You are not flying the chair - just floating the sidecar wheel just a bit. And keep steering normally. This is extremely important. And this is where many go wrong because they have been taught wrong. This will help you get a bit more confidence. Be careful not to lift the sidecar wheel more than a few inches, however.
But always slow down for righthanders as you have been doing.
Connie wrote:
>>Hi Claude,
Okay, I'll give you that! I absolutely agree that you should know how to handle that situation. And that different rigs will behave differently. I guess it's just that deliberately riding around with the car up in the air stuff that I simply don't understand. (some people like roller coasters, too - but not me!!!!) <<
Common sense isn't it Connie. We should take the responsibility to learn something every time we go for a ride. Learning to ride around with the hack in the air is a hoot for some people(Yes, I do it from time to time, big deal)...but...it has absolutly nothing to do with learning the limits of our rigs and ourselves and how to deal with a situation when the time comes. Becoming comfortable with what it feels like when the wheel comes up and learning not to overreact and make the rig turn left across the centerline instead of right can save a sidecar operator and his or her family a lot of uneccesary grieve and even their lives.
With sidecars there are no real 'masters' as each rig is a little diferent than th eother one. Due to that we owe it to ourselves and our loved ones to enlarge our skills envelope as much as possible. Practice never ends, it is a daily thing when we ride. I like the term 'practicing sidecarists' as it defines us all as still being on a learning curve.
Getting to know our limits and th elimits of our outfits is a fun thing and a challenge. It is also in our best interests to do so. Emergencies happen on the road. We can push th edefinition of 'emergency' out farthr and farther ahead of us as we hone or sidecarisng skills by practice. One person's emergency may not even be an issue for the next person if they had expanded their skill levels to th epoint of dealing with it naturally. We can control our actions but NOT our reactions. Proper, life saving,reactions can only come through proper practice.
Thanks Connie..I will get off this soapbox for a while...
Claude: practicing sidecarist
Hi Hal,
I've probably written this so many times that some folks are sick of it, but to clarify what I'm posting, I'll do it again. When I got my first rig, I knew nothing about sidehacking or anyone else who knew anything about it. Well, my husband had briefly owned an old Harley panhead with a homemade wooden sidecar, so he had some limited experience. He never finds much of anything too hard, scary or difficult to do, but he's not the one who drives my rig. I posted the two things that he told me to do, the rest I figured out on my own, mostly by scaring the he-- out of myself (that's why I'm going to heaven! LOL). Anyway, no one will ever see me deliberately riding around with my sidecar up in the air. I don't know how many miles I put on the first bike with the sidecar attached, but I had that bike for 4 years and have had my current bike since 2000. I've put about 60,000 miles on it and have ridden it coast to coast and to lots of places in between. I may not do the fancy stuff and I'll probably never be a "professional" sidehacker, but I think I do a tolerable job of piloting my rig.
The problem with practicing anything on a parking lot is that it's virtually impossible to find one that isn't occupied where you would be allowed to practice. When I took the beginning motorcycle class at a community college, they told us to practice on an empty parking lot. But the college wouldn't allow anyone to practice on their vacant parking lot. When the people who offer the classes won't even allow you to practice on their parking lot, why would anyone else?
Connie
I like to putz around in church and school lots on Saturdays. Still haven't been able to break out the rear wheel though ~:^D
All that is required to break the rear wheel loose is a a power weight ratio of 10 to 1 or better at the rear wheel which means about 7.5 to 1 engine to weight. Thus, if your rig weighs in at 750 pounds, add 250 pounds for the Uncle Ernie, just guessing, or 1000 pounds, and you had 133.3 BHP on tap, there should be no problem pulling wheelies or breaking traction or whatever, With many bikes now with engines from 130 to 150 bhp available your choice of a suitable tug should be fairly wide.
On a disturbing note, I rather fear that the Ural 650 or the BMW 500 do not fit into this category.
Connie - A good hacker is a safe hacker - no matter what they say. As the historian charged with converting ALL the Sidecarists from 1977 to current from paper copy to electronic copy it is my current duty to READ all the articles ever written in these wonderful journals.
I am amazed by just how many delightful senior ladies there have been driving sidecars around and across the United States and they have been doing so since the nineteen twenties. Perhaps the unsung heroines. They certainly do not take the back seat to anybody as far as strength of purpose is concerned. Some drive their hubbies around because their hubbies are incapacipated and can no longer drive themselves. Now that is pure dedication.
As far as the parking lot is concerned, that can be a problem. However, I have found that often on a long interstate trip between nowhereland and flopsville, population 250, there are often nearly abandoned villages where one may cavot to ones delight. Maybe on your next trip to a rally you might keep this in mind and a suitable site might open up when you least expect it, if it is not raining. Any other suggestions?
Uncle Ernie wrote:
>>I like to putz around in church and school lots on Saturdays. Still haven't been able to break out the rear wheel though ~:^D<<
There is a technique calle ddrifting that is taught by some that will help many rigs get through right handers quicker. It is a simple matter of using the front brake while under power to keep the speed down and also increase the slip angle of the rear tire. In other words it makes the rear tire flex more between the wheel rim and the contact patch. Tire design, air pressure and or course speed are all factors that control the effectiveness of this technique.
If you are talking about a true three wheel drift in a right hander it essentially is the so called drifting technique taken to the next level. It is really not something that should be practiced and used on the street as there is risk invloved. The idea is to create a true power slide with the rear wheel broken loose through a turn. It takes a total comitment by the rider and a rig with enough power to pull it off sucessfully. I would not feel responsible to elabrate any futher here as the danger of the tire 'hooking up' at the wrong time can be a disaster.
Sidecaring can be fun and challenging without getting into the crazy stuff.
Thanks again Hal and Claude. I guess I'm into the first stage, but to get to the second I'll need to figure out if I should go with NOS or a supercharger. I seem to remember BMW did a supersharger at some point a while ago. There are some downhill right-handers nearby with suitable guard rails on the far left side so if I drift too much I shouldn't go over the cliff. Thinking maybe used racing tires from ebay might get loose easier 'till I get good.
Hi Hal,
Well, I'm not a granny, but only because my kids haven't seen fit to make me one. I hope that if and when they ever decide to, I'll still be able to drive my rig. I know how much kids love sidecars and I'd probably be the coolest granny around these parts! Heck, I think it's cool to ride in a sidecar.
My dad was a big rig driver for as long as I can remember until a couple of years before he passed away. He took driving very seriously and I guess that he passed that on to me. I know that I'm not and never will be the most skilled sidehacker around, but I do try to be safe at all times. Skill means nothing if it isn't applied with common sense. Since I ride with a lot of veteran two wheel riders who find my skills tolerable, I don't think that I'm "too" bad at this sidehacking thing. A couple of them have even asked for and taken rides in the car while I was driving.
I really wanted to take a sidecar class, but I haven't found one available anywhere close enough that I would be willing to go. Not only for myself, but also for others who want to get into sidehacking, I think that either the sidecar industry or the state motor vehicle departments need to make sidecar classes more readily available. Beginning motorcycle classes are pretty easy to get into, but finding a sidecar class (at least around here) is something like looking for hens teeth.
Connie
Lonnie:
Take the "Roads less traveled". What great advise. I'm with you - secondary roads always seem to offer the best of traveling worlds to the sidecarist.. They may be slower, but more memorable - you get to ride, and smell the roses too!
We rode some of your proposed route this June. We were headed North, but it is a ride worth taking in any direction.. :-).. Page 6 in the Sept/Oct. issue of The Sidecarist speaks of some of the sections you'll be riding. Hope to meet you at the rally, and hope you have a great ride... gp
CONNIE WROTE::
>>I really wanted to take a sidecar class, but I haven't found one available anywhere close enough that I would be willing to go. Not only for myself, but also for others who want to get into sidehacking, I think that either the sidecar industry or the state motor vehicle departments need to make sidecar classes more readily available. Beginning motorcycle classes are pretty easy to get into, but finding a sidecar class (at least around here) is something like looking for hens teeth.<<
.......
Connie, Virginia seems to a state with many sidecar training opprotunities compared to most. Check out the following. These are Evergreen Saftey Council S/TEP classes and should be teaching the latest cirriculium.
September 16-18, 2005
NVCC - Loudoun
contact Claire Wynn at 703-450-2551
Sept. 23-25, 2005
Tidewater CC - Portsmouth contact Keith Lindgren at 757-822-5247 or 888-826-7584
October 7-9, 2005 Danville CC contact phone 434-797-2222 ext. 8520 or 800-560-4291
TBA Central VA CC - Lynchburg
contact Dennis Phillips at 434-832-7621
TBA Wytheville CC contact Donald Early at 276-223-4746
For all other classes contact The Motorcycle Safety League of Virginia, Inc. at 757-822-5246 or 757-822-5247
Other Classes will be scheduled as demand warrants
Class Schedule: Friday 7:00pm-10:00pm
Saturday 8:00pm-5:00pm
Sunday 8:00pm-4:00pm
Course fee: $65-$190 depending on location.
Sidecar outfits are provided for student use.
Claude,
Thanks for the information. I have checked out the Evergreen site many times, but it never seems to have current information. Everything that I have ever seen posted was for the previous year. They definitely need to do a better job of updating their website. But as I said before, all of those locations are at least a couple of hours drive away and none are in the Shenanoah Valley where I live. This vast part of the state always seems to be left out of planning for those classes.
I will copy all of that information into a file for future reference!
Connie
Connie,
You may want to consider the fact that a couple of hours away from you is mighty darn close compaired to the distance MOST people have to travel.
You can always turn it into a weekend road trip 🙂
