IamDan - 7/20/2016 7:41 AM
That has led me to the idea that I should get a used Ural to train in, yea it's got no power, but they are set up from the factory, ...
Actually, they come from the factory in a large crate, in several pieces, and the dealer does the final assembly and setup. If the dealer is a Ural dealer then chances are good that he'll do a good job of setting up the sidecar; if he just sells Urals as a "side" business chances are he won't take the time to set it up correctly.
In response to Tim R. We just returned from Hotchkiss and the national rally of the 74 outfits there were 17 Urals. The newer models are more reliable than the early ones. They have improved the engines reliability but the transmissions and final drives are still designed for the old engines. The guys I talk to who have the new ones have more fun than they ever had on 2 wheels. The set up issue is really a non-issue because they have very little adjustment that has to be done after reassembly at the dealer. Our local dealer says he doesn't have to do much to get the set-up right after putting together a new one. All that having been said - Urals a great way to get into sidecaring. I can't resist quoting a comment I heard at the rally from a Ural rider. "They are the Harbor Freight of sidecars."
I'm not an instructor nor a builder, so take my advise accordingly. That being said, if anyone coming across this thread is an instructor or builder or pilot with experience and notice that I've provided false, misleading or dangerous info, please speak up! I won't be offended and promise to learn from your knowledge. Besides, the life you save may be a future customer/riding buddy!
A couple of quick static tests to tell if the rig is set up good 'nuf (for parking lot practice):
- overall condition of the rig. Does it look like it's been well cared for? Standard bike inspection techniques applies here.
- tire wear. Are the tires wearing evenly? Are they wearing too fast (owner complains they are only getting a few thou out of their tires. If the owner is a potential seller, be sly when asking about tire wear)
- does the rig sit level when empty and when loaded? By loaded, I mean a driver AND passenger/ballast.
- grab the handlebars, put your right foot on the LEFT peg (you are now hanging off the left side of the bike). See how easily you can pick the sidecar wheel off the ground with just your weight. You are testing not only the rig with this maneuver, but how YOUR weight when added to the rig will affect it's handling.
- Hint, the wheel should lift but not real easily. If it's too easy, add ballast to the car. Add heavy inanimate things like water jugs, bricks or WELL CONTAINED sand bags. Your ballast loading WILL vary, you are in a way tailoring the rig to YOU as the driver.
- Only add people or pets to the car if the driver is experienced! (special note: wives HATE to be called BALLAST!)
- when you pick the hack wheel up, look for any flex or play in the bike-to-car connections.
Now, if you and the owner are comfortable with you taking control of the rig:
- FOLLOW THE OWNER'S INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER! You are asking to borrow his baby. Put yourself in his shoes by remembering back to your daughters prom night!
- show up well rested, you are going to use mussels you didn't know were there.
- do your test drives in a BIG parking lot with no obstacles and is mostly free of dips and slopes.
- Go slow and straight, planning for a wide LEFT turn at the end.
- Don't leave first gear until the owner thinks you are ready.
- When driving straight and slow, apply the brakes. If the car wheel does not have a brake, you should feel a slight push to the LEFT from the weight of the car. Correct this yaw with steering and speed.
- similarly, the car will want to pull the bike RIGHT when you accelerate. Again compensate with steering and speed.
Now for your first turn.
- slow, wide LEFT turn at the end of the straight away.
- You may feel the car wanting to nose dive. Compensate with speed and steering and now also by shifting your body weigh AWAY from the car. Your body weight is PART of the rig's balance/counter-balance system. On a solo bike, you become one with the machine, leaning as it leans. On a rig, you are a separate entity. You shift your body weight counter to the bike to keep the rig balanced and in contact with the road. Watch some videos of sidecar racers and you'll see what I mean! You'll also understand why a sidecar racing team consists of a "driver" and a "monkey"! (FYI, wives also HATE being called a MONKEY!)
- Rinse and repeat straight away driving, acceleration, braking and LEFT turning, maybe adding a little speed (VERY little) each time.
- When you are ready AND THE OWNER SAYS OK, switch to RIGHT turns, but VERY slowly. Things will get exciting now!
- This time, you should feel the car's wheel wanting to rise.
- Correct this by shifting your weight TOWARDS the car and widening your turn. Avoid grabbing the brakes hard if you feel the rig tipping. Hard braking will only worsen the tip. Plan your right turns with some run-out space in case you need to straighten your line to set the wheel back down. See, I told you it's guna get exciting!
- if the rig seems too tippy, try adding more ballast.
- Rinse repeat
If you aren't hooked on sidecars at this point, thank the owner, offer to buy lunch, then walk away. Sidecars are asymmetric and drive like no other vehicle out there. It's not everyone's cup of Scotch, er, I mean tea! Yes it's TEA in that cup!
If you want to continue and the owner is OK with it, figure-8s are your next exercise.
- big, slow figure-8s
- slowly (VERY slowly) add speed and tighten the pattern.
- remember to plan for run-out space on your turns.
- when you get to the point that you consistently feel the tipping points, you've learn enough for now.
Time for your next gut check, are you still hooked?
You should be getting fairly comfortable by now with shifting your body weight and adjusting your speed and steering to compensate for turns and acceleration/deceleration induced yaw. Be aware that this is when things get down right dangerous! As confidence builds, so will the urge to challenge yourself and thus get yourself into trouble. Be focused and disciplined as you add new skills!! ALWAYS RESPECT THE RIG AND IT'S ABILITY TO HURT YOU!! When it comes to the science of sidecars, always keep Newton in charge, never Darwin!
If you want to continue and the owner is OK with it. Time to try panic stops.
- With added speed and harder braking, the yaw effect of an un-braked sidecar wheel will get more pronounced. Be ready for it.
- Chose a wide open area with several run-out options. DON'T CHARGE HEADLONG AT A BRICK WALL!
- hard breaking and turning at the same time IS TO BE AVOIDED! Keep 'er pointed as straight as possible when hard braking.
At this point, you should know if sidecar ownership is for you. Thank the owner, buy lunch (or more likely dinner by now!). Find yourself a rig to buy. Buying a practice rig and selling it after a few years is preferable to building your own at this point. I learned the hard way that an inexperienced driver (me) plus and inexperienced builder (also me) is just asking for trouble! As I said above, sidecar rigs are like no other vehicle out there!
Think you are ready for the street? NO YOU ARE NOT! So far the only entity that has been trying to kill you is the rig itself. On the street there will be cars and trucks and pedestrians and animals and pot holes and shredded tire pieces and gravel and off-camber surfaces (be sure to read up on these little beauts!) and all sorts of things out of your control. Your run-out options will also be severely limited. Correcting a wonky right turn by widening your line into on-coming traffic will make for a very bad day! Were I a religious man, you can bet I'd be tossing an extra nickel in the collection plate for every time I think about my brushes with this all too common noob mistake! You will need much more parking lot practice AND A CLASS if at all possible to ready yourself for the streets!
Good luck and again, welcome to the slightly off-center world of sidecars!
P.S.
Sorry about all the edits, but more things pop into mind...
OK - more very solid info & ideas.
CCjon - N central WI - 15 miles from Oshkosh - 1 hr. + north of Milwaukee. We have a Ural dealer in Neenah, but no used one, no test rides.
IamDan - had a similar thought, but the used Urals in my "try it" budget are very old - pre-2000 and still near my $$$ limit. Newer used ones are near the price of getting a new car on my current bike - Didn't make "cents" to me. I haven't completely ruled one out - guys do seem to actually sell the used ones for the asking price - I've checked. Which amazes me.
Alan - yep I've taught myself all kinds of things by reading and then doing - researched trial & error I call it. And I expect I'll do the same here. I will read the manual you linked to, thanks.
jwshort - Ural went to EFI and all disc brakes in 2014 (pretty sure) - so those rigs (14, 15 & 16) are still selling for premium - $15K or so. The 2000 - 20013 with the old tech - are still getting $5K - 14K. And stuff from Harbor Freight is not exactly synonymous with "quality", to me. Stuff I bought from HF usually breaks just when I need it most. I also looked at a 2016 Ural & sat on it just yesterday - not a lot of room for my right foot at all! Just my $.02
OldSchool - now that there is an ANSWER! Does that come in paperback! LOL Thanks!! Now I might not look like a complete idiot checking a rig out. And not getting too confident too quick - good advice to extend my earthly existence.
I will read the manual, the answers here and other threads and continue the quest. So far - I have not been deterred, only educated by you all.
Just downloaded the books to my tablet - wow! There's a TON of info there. Just a quick glance answered a couple other questions. OK - will read first - ask Q's later. My thanks to Hal.
Paperback? Actually there is! Check with Jay at DMC Sidecars (or their website) for a mighty fine piece of ligature on many subjects, inducing side car operation. There are also the collective works of Hal Kendall available at the link Alan posted. Hal was one of the founding fathers of this club and modern sidecaring in general. His knowledge and guidance is sorely missed.
Old School sounds like an instructor for Evergreen or the like. I wish I had had this kind of advice when I bought my first rig. I had read a lot and knew that the rig would not handle like a solo bike. I knew it wouldn't handle like a 4 wheel vehicle. Fortunately I only had 6-8 blocks to get it home. It was not until I had gone probably 10,000 miles on that rig and had bought a second that I happend on a sidecar safety course at a National rally in MO. I had ridden there from South Dakota. I say all this to say - you can survive the learning curve on a sidecar rig but you have to be aware of what Old School said in his description of what I will call "self-teaching" your self to ride.
Incidently - I put 60,000 miles on the second rig - rode it coast to coast and border to border plus a trip to Alaska. I am now on to my 3rd rig and love it. I have had no close calls and no accidents. My wife has ridden most of those miles in the sidecar (when she wasn't driving and I was napping in the sidecar.) She still loves the mode of travel except when the weather is ugly. (We had heat and wind on the trip to Hotchkiss.)
The Yellow Book written by Dave Hough is the book to read and is available from the USCA store. I still have mine from the MO rally ('96 or '97?).
I will read the books I downloaded by Hal in the next few days. I went to the USCA store, but saw no books - decals, T's, a cap, ..............hay libros, nada, zip. Whitehorse press has it - http://www.whitehorsegear.com/driving-a-sidecar-outfit-2nd-edition Maybe I missed it?
I took an MSF class when I started riding motorcycles again - and it still took several years behind the bars to truly feel mildly confident. I don't have issue with acknowledging my inexperience on a topic and listening to those with more. I found that to be a good survival skill. You guys have all been a Fort Knox of sidecar info for those of us considering the leap.
OH - I clicked on the Adventure something ad in the Store because it said they offered sidecar classes - they no longer offer classes. fyi
And Driving a Sidecar outfit 2nd edition - NOT available at Amazon! They have the "yellow" spiral bound edition for $63....... $35 for 2nd edition at Whitehorse.
As far as I know, white horse and DMC sidecars are the only companies stocking the book which is always spiral bound and all we have is the second edition as we sold out of the first edition years ago. You can order it direct from our web site for $34.95 or via the phone.
The only difference between us and Whitehorse is frankly, I am going to add some of our sales literature with the book.
Adventure sidecars stopped doing classes about 3 years ago now.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
Red,
I'm in Minneapolis. If you get over this way we can arrange a ride.
You might try Scrambler Cycle www.scramblercycle.com in Cameron, WI to see if he has anything used that he might let you ride [or buy]. Kevin, the owner, is a dealer for DMC and Velorex and a generally good guy. He did the [very complex] installation of my EML GT2 kit.
I have been informed that we don't sell books at our USCA store. Jay has them and his price is as good as any if you don't mind getting a sales pitch. Sorry for the misinformation.
Cameron is way up near Rice Lake. Nice day ride! I'll call & see if he's got anything. And I appreciate the offer, Al. I have some friends in "The Cities" ;-), maybe visit & do a test ride. I may take you up on that ~ but it's a busy several weeks upcoming for me. Summer's short up this way.
