OK...I've decided to "run what I brung" and put a hack on my Kawasaki VN750, which I own free and clear and which I think will make a good tug. There's a local Ural dealer here who puts other brands of sidecars on other motos as a sideline and I'll probably have them put the sidecar (a Ural or something like that) on the bike...that way, I know it will be set up right.
In the process of educating myself about driving sidecars, I've read some stuff on different websites and a local acquaintance has permitted me to drive his hack rig at slow speed to get a taste of the process. I now clearly understand that driving a hack is very different from riding a moto. My concern is that it would appear to me that making a mistake while driving a hack is pretty unforgiving....more so than riding a motorcycle. It looks to me that if you accidentally fly the chair at the wrong time and place, or you brake or apply throttle inappropriately, you're likely to end up as a hood ornament on oncoming traffic if you respond incorrectly. As an example, there's a recent post on this website about an experienced hack driver who ran across a center line and was killed by oncoming traffic.
I guess my question is this: just how counter-intuitive and difficult to learn is hack-driving going to be? I know I'll have to practice and I will do so...I also recognize that anything with two or three wheels has an increased level of risk because of its very nature...
Am I going to pick this up? You experienced hack pilots: what were your first attempts to drive your hack rigs like? Any input appreciated, as the path has been set and I'd like to move forward with this...
Bob
Welcome to the world of sidecars. There will be people along with a lot more set time than me but here are my thoughts. I there some books here on this site that are free and is a great place to start the link is below. You did not say where you were but if you can get to a school do it. It will be worth the money. Which ever way you go spent a lot of time in a big open parking lot doing over and over what you have read. I have over 18 months and still hit the local parking lot some Sunday mornings.
http://www.sidecar.com/links3.asp
Ya, an empty parking lot is a good place to practice.
Originally written by gumshoe4 on 9/30/2007 8:23 PM
(snip)... My concern is that it would appear to me that making a mistake while driving a hack is pretty unforgiving....more so than riding a motorcycle. It looks to me that if you accidentally fly the chair at the wrong time and place, or you brake or apply throttle inappropriately, you're likely to end up as a hood ornament on oncoming traffic if you respond incorrectly. As an example, there's a recent post on this website about an experienced hack driver who ran across a center line and was killed by oncoming traffic.I guess my question is this: just how counter-intuitive and difficult to learn is hack-driving going to be? I know I'll have to practice and I will do so...I also recognize that anything with two or three wheels has an increased level of risk because of its very nature...
Am I going to pick this up? You experienced hack pilots: what were your first attempts to drive your hack rigs like? Any input appreciated, as the path has been set and I'd like to move forward with this...
Bob
Learning to drive a sidecar is no more counter intuitive than learning to drive any other vehicle. Learning to drive any vehicle in traffic-be it an automobile, motorcycle, sidecar or even a bicycle -is fraught with danger. Failing to master the skills needed to control speed, steer and brake on any of these modes of transport can put you off the road or across the lane into oncoming traffic. Bicycles and motorcycles have the additional hazard of tipping over easily. Beginners on all these machines not infrequently cross out of their lanes, or go wide in corners or clip parked cars and curbs.
Like learning anything, if you can take lessons or classes you will learn faster in a safer environment. Like any hazardous activity, wearing safety gear is important not just for beginners but for everyone every time they engage in the activity. For sidecars and motorcycles this means riding clothes that cover the arms and legs, gloves, boots, eye protection and a good helmet, preferably full face.
Experienced motorcyclists often have trouble learning to steer directly rather than countersteering to initiate a turn. This just takes some consciuos effort and practice to overcome. You already have done this if you drive a car, ATV or golfcart, you just need to get your head in the right place when holding onto the handlebars.
Beginners with no motorcycle experience have a harder time, I think, because they need to learn the complex multitasking needed to use a hand throttle and clutch and separate brakes as well as the techniques needed to control a sidecar
And there are a few techniques unique to sidecars that you should learn to help keep the rig stable in corners and to corner and to accelerate,turn & brake with the most control, smoothness and fun. Again, a class will help a great deal.
There have been endless discussions about the dangers and complexity of driving a sidecar. The fact is, most folks in western civilization have already mastered similar, dangerous and complex tasks by the time they come to sidecars. If you go about learning to drive a sidecar in a deliberate, sensible manner and keep a safe attitude, you will do fine. It is fun!
Bob wrote:
"It looks to me that if you accidentally fly the chair at the wrong time and place, or you brake or apply throttle inappropriately, you're likely to end up as a hood ornament on oncoming traffic if you respond incorrectly. As an example, there's a recent post on this website about an experienced hack driver who ran across a center line and was killed by oncoming traffic."
This phenomenon can also occur with a solo motorcycle. It's called "high siding" and has happened to countless inexperienced or overzealous motorcyclists through the years.
In the instance you mention, Sad as it is, I believe the sidecar pilot may not have had much seat time. He was driving his wife's recently acquired sidecar rig, may have been trying to keep pace with his solo riding group and may not have had enough ballast in the sidecar for stability.
If you do pursue sidehacking and run with an empty sidecar, remember that proper ballast isn't just for sissies.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
As a 79 year old novice with about 6 months and 4,000 miles of rig time, I have flown the car deliberately twice in a parking lot by a hard right lock turn at low speed, after removing all weight . My reaction was normal for beginners, I steered left to bring it down WRONG!
I drive with about 100 pounds of weight in the car, a Spyder, I have the tread width set wide, and I anticipate curves by slowing down to at least the posted curve speed. I ride my own ride. The rig is stable, I've practiced many panic stops, accelerated hard, drove on gravel roads and off cambered curves ( slowly) and feel that I am getting some experience except for flying the chair and having the right reaction, which I suspect will be the hardest for me, after 40 some years of riding on two wheels.
If I can learn, anyone can. The main thing for me is to ride my own ride. I won't get sucked into trying to keep up with the others.
Wayne
13.12.1986, first time picking up the MZ in Kiel. 3-5°C, humid cold crawling into the bones.
First crossing > first flasher fuse
second crossing > second flasher fuse.
What the hack! use the arm to sign direction!
140km to home 3 times straight into the pasture.
14.12.1986 -5°C ride with best buddy 80km arround close to east german border
1 snow post (roads cat eye) became smaller.
I wagged it off right in between the front wheel and the nose.
Luckily I allways used motocross knee protectors!
After that quite a few rounds on parking lots.
25.12.1986 Aunt throw that special coin.
Queen Elithabeth didn't like me, so I went to Norway to visit King Gustaf Adolf and my friend Johan Jansen in Bergen.
Had a lot of fun, 2 snowstorms of the heavy type and 5 hot meals a day. Down to -28°C. Ahh > forgot to mention: One salto mortale 3/4 turns in the didge with 1,20m snow. Good laugh It was the left side of the road!
5.01.1987 -3°C Costoums officer in Kiel harbour: "You ain't gono enter Germany with spikes!" - what a luck to get at least for the back tire a reserve. Front tire pull them out of the frozen tire with an iron plier.
I got warm but the hands became stiff.
12.01.87 1m snow with best buddy lets go camping in Harz montains.
A parking lot and the german manual (in links its translated) are good teachers.
but I guess mud and snow are the perfect teachers.
Play off road until you got a feeling in the bud, then make your exercises on a parking lot one hour a day and after two weeks or so you might go on low trafic roads with a sack of cement going SLOWLY.
ALWAYS BREAK BEFORE THE BEND NEVER IN IT.
BETTER PEOPLE LAUGH ABOUT GRANNY THEN HAVE TO CALL THE AMBULANCE.
Regards
Sven Peter Pan
Excellent points, all...
I'm in Sacramento and I intend to take the S/TEP course in Oregon as soon as I can. I also intend to do parking lot practice and I think it will be very helpful. And you're right...balancing on two wheels adds to the workload of the rider and is one thing I won't have to do with a hack.
Having ridden two wheels for awhile, I'm familiar with the term high-siding. I also understand the necessity to ride your own ride, not letting others drive how you do your thing. I already do that and I take my own sweet time to get where I'm going...it's not a race and I'm there to enjoy the ride, not set a land speed record. We have a large number of sport bike riders in the area who ride up in the mountains where I like to go and we lose one quite often...the last was because he was jamming across the top of a dam at 80+ and lost focus, ending up in the spillway.
I'm looking forward to getting the hack and learning how to drive it. You've probably heard this stuff many times from many novices, but I knew that you guys would have some perspective on this and I really appreciate everyone's input. I'll let you know how it goes...
Bob
The S/TEP class will make you feel much more comfortable about riding with the hack. I had ridden my rig for a while but recently took the course. After taking the class and practicing the techniques, I am comfortable flying the rig, drifting through corners, panic stopping etc... They will take you from the complete basics through flying the car. By the end of the course, you'll be able to ride that thing on two wheels all the way across the parking lot (not that you would ever want to do that in traffic, but you'll know how to control it if it happens)
Hacks aren't any more dangerous than riding a two wheeler, but they are competely different. Practice practice practice
They aren't something to be feared, but certainly are something to respect.
Originally written by gumshoe4 on 10/1/2007 6:12 PM
Excellent points, all...
I'm in Sacramento and I intend to take the S/TEP course in Oregon as soon as I can. I also intend to do parking lot practice and I think it will be very helpful. And you're right...balancing on two wheels adds to the workload of the rider and is one thing I won't have to do with a hack.
(snip)
Bob
Our last class this season is coming up October 12,13,14. Last I checked there were still three openings. If you are interested call Hood River Community Education (541)386 2055 to get signed up.
It will sometime before I am able to set dates for next years classes.
Thanks, Vernon...probably won't make that one, so don't hold a place for me....
Bob
Hi
I'm in the Sacramento area, LMK if you'd like to meet up when you get your sidecar on your bike. I've been riding one for about a year now and my wife and I really like it.
If you're in the mood for an outing, the "Jessie's Ride" motorcycle run starts from the Moon River Inn in Freeport this Saturday morning and has all the good stuff, BBQ, vendors and a raffle for a new custom Harley. We'll be there, look for a blue sportster w/sidecar.
To cosign some of the more experienced folks who have commented,
stay under the posted speed in bends
put some weight in the car
practice flying the car away from traffic until you're comfortable
Don't get cocky, I almost smeared myself down the side of a semi when I did
My email address is hrsdir@pacbell.net
Peter
