Japanese Motorcycle advice needed

C/Jack,
650 is a good starting CC displacement for a sidecar rig. We have installed cars from 150# to 235# on 650s and have gotten good feedback from the owners. Some smaller bikes are used with limitations but we recommend 650 or larger bikes since wheels, tires, brakes, suspension,and wheelbase will handle a hack better. Also one can run at freeway speeds if necessary. Your main limitation is that a smaller bike will use more gas, have a shorter range between fillups and require a little more downshifting on the hills.
Most of the current Big four Japanese cruisers back to the early eighties are sidecar compatable. A double tubed full cradle frame will make the installation easy and usually without a full sub-frame being necessary.
Most Japanese cruisers have excessive rake and trail since they are not designed for high speed handling. If excessive, a steering damper may be installed to eliminate nose wiggle. It's more fun if one is not needed since they slow the steering and reduce steering feedback from the road. Less trail is a plus, belt or shaft drive is a plus, dual disc front brakes are a plus, a rear disc brake is a plus. Most have adequate front suspension, but air assisted anti dive is good.
Water cooled is a plus if you live in a hot or traffic congested area where you may have to sit in traffic for long periods.
I'm on the left coast so no suggestions for installers, sorry.

Lonnie
Northwest Sidecar

Originally written by Campanula on 8/8/2005 9:16 AM

I am in the process of trying to figure out our first rig. It is looking like we will be purchasing a used of new (depending on models and prices) Honda/Yamaha/Kawasaki in the next month or so and hanging a sidecar on it in the spring. I have 4 questions (well I have more but that's all I'll bug you with for now :p ):

1.) I am thinking anything from a 650 up should be large enough to do a sidecar safely, am I correct?

What kind of riding do you plan to do and what kind of weight will you carry? Probably 80-85% of my time is on the Interstate with about 250 lbs on the bike and about 100 or so in the sidecar. I would hesitate riding much less than 1000cc under these circumstances. And even though I'm in Northwestern Wisconsin, I would not ride the interstate without liquid cooling and a driveshaft. Others will disagree, but my only problems at highway speeds have been related to chains and belts or to overheating air cooled bikes. None of this matters much if you do mostly local riding or if you prefer backroads, then the 650 would probably be fine.

2.) Are there any magic rake and trail numbers I should look for on a bike that I intend to use for a sidecar?

3.) Does anyone know of a good sidecar shop in the southern PA or MD area?

Check the map at http://www.sidecar.com/themap.asp Click on your state and a list should open.

4.) Does anyone have any recommendations for models/bikes that they know are good for sidecars?

Over the years I've had Harley/Harley, Goldwing/HitchHiker, XS850/Dnepr, and now a Valkyrie/Dnepr. Depending on your budget, I really like my Valkyrie, but I've been thinking seriously about going back to a 1500cc Goldwing and mount a Hannigan sidecar. (I miss the quiet and the wife wants a bigger car.)

Thanks for the help (and the questions). Here is what i have figured so far if it helps any in the reccomendation department.

"What kind of riding do you plan to do and what kind of weight will you carry?"

We will probably do about 80% backroad riding (in the 40-55mph range) with some probable interstate driving on vacations and such. Between my wife and I we will be around 350-375 lbs (more everyday lol). Hard to tell how much junk we'll pack on it, depends somewhat on the sidecar.

Thanks for the link to the map, I don't know how I missed that.

Right now among the new models I am leaning toward the Yamaha V Star Classic (650) -- shaft drive but air cooled. A Honda Shadow Spirit 750 -- liquid cooled but chain drive. Or a Kawasaki Vulcan 800 Drifter -- also liquid cooled and chain driven. None are ideal. Of course I am also keeping my eyes out for older bikes in the general 650-800 cc range. Urals also tickle my imagination, but I would need to find one used at a good price to make it worth chasing down the bugs.

I don't know if any of this blather has helped, but any input you have is greatly apprecaited (especially if you have worked on one of the above bikes in a rig and know it would have issues).

Thanks again,

jack/Campanula

Take a look at the ads here as well as eBay and www.cycletrader.com. While you're at it, put an ad in the local paper under "Wanted". You never know what might be right around the corner. The attaching kit to add a sidecar to a motorcycle can add as much as $700 or more to the price. In addition, if you find it's not your thing, it might be easier to sell a complete outfit. Good Hunting!

I'm sure that my advice couldn't begin to be as good as that of any of the guys who have posted answers to your questions, but you never know, so I'll add it, it's probably worth what it will cost! I haven't ridden all of the bikes that you've mentioned, but I do have a 650 V-Star (no sidecar) and a 1500 Goldwing with a California Friendship II sidecar and I had the same sidecar on a 1200 Goldwing. First, after riding the V-Star, I can't imagine hooking a sidecar to it. Second, the difference between the 1500 and the 1200 with the same sidecar is amazing. I could do interstate speeds with the 1200, but it sure had to work harder and couldn't always keep up with the 1500s. Those semis don't really seem to care that your horses don't have anymore giddy-up when you slow down in front of them, either! And when riding in the mountains, I worked myself half to death shifting. I could, however, play with the 1200 a bit more. By that I mean, influencing it with my body (which most two wheel riders don't seem to think that you can do with a sidecar). When I didn't feel like playing, I just drove the thing. I have never felt the need to have a steering damper on my 1500; the 1200 could definitely have used one. I guess it matters a bit how hard you're willing to work, too. When I had the 1200, I had arms like a weight lifter.
Oh, one more thing, the Goldwing Road Riders website is a good place to look for rigs (or bikes) for sale.

Connie

Hi Jack
I have a 1500 Gold Wing with a Champion Escort and have to say it has
a lot of power. In fact, last weekend the wife and I went on a campout
about 200 miles away. We were pulling our Time-Out Camper too. We were
running back roads at about 60-65 mph and on fill up got 31 mpg. I am
real happy with it and my wife wouldn't want to ride any other way.
Also the grandkids are wild about the rig and I feel safe giving them
a ride in it.
Ralph

Thanks for the information. Seems it all depends on what you want and I guess having not owned one yet I'm not sure what I want.

I've been searching everywhere I can think of and haven't found anything decent in our price range. I think the problem is our price range (around 5-7 grand). So far the only option seems to be a used Ural.

"First, after riding the V-Star, I can't imagine hooking a sidecar to it."

Why can't you imagine it? What in particular do you think would be an issue?

I do have to admit that I am confused by the number of folks running 650-800cc rigs and the folks who feel it should be 1200 or higher to have a rig on it. Like I said I guess it depends on what you want etc.

thanks again everyone,

c

I once had a xs650 Yamaha twin with a Velorex on it. That thing was one of my favorite rigs ever. It took me all up and down the east coast from the New England states to Florida. It was underpowered, struggled on the interstates and was probably not happy with all it got put through but rarely complained. A good friend.
With that being said I would never build that same rig again and use it the way that one was used.
With the cost of bigger bore Japanese and even other brand used bikes being fairly reasonable I see no real reason to opt for anything less than 1000cc if given the choice. No, you can never have TOO MUCH power with a sidecar rig. Physical size of the rig or even the rider is typically not an issue on a rig the same way it may be for some on a solo bike. (off road riding being an exception).
If you have the power you do not have to use it. If you don't have the power and wish you did you are out of luck.
Just thinking out loud,

Originally written by claude #3563 on 8/10/2005 10:18 PM

If you have the power you do not have to use it. If you don't have the power and wish you did you are out of luck.
Just thinking out loud,

What's that thing about Great Minds? I was just thinking of that NRA slogan about "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. 🙂

Seriously, a good friend of ours, TLMaryanne Olme has a Honda CT70 with a sidecar and loves it. I also have a friend with a 350 Chevy on a Harley frame and is planning to replace it with something bigger because it doesn't have enough power for his taste. The advice you receive here, mine included, is worth about what it cost you. Only you know what will suit your needs and your budget. The best thing to do would be to find a rally or a sidecarist down the street and actually go for a ride. I noticed you're in Pennsylvania. Are there any local pilots you could talk to? Claude, How far away are you?

I am in central pa. about 50 miles north of Harrisburg. Shoot me an email and maybe we can get together. cstanley@sunlink.net
Heck should have come to the RON DEE VOO...had 85 rigs there to look over.
Claude #0001, who is ready to go fishing. How about you Mike 🙂 ?

I live on a lake and I've been fishing once this year. 🙁 Always seems to be something more urgent going on. This weekend my 56 year old Brother-in-law is getting married for the fifth time. I like the guy, but fishing probably has more future. :0) I did just pick up a convertible fly/spin rod that breaks down into an 18 inch case though, and the milfoil choking my shoreline is starting to attract the bass. 🙂

Hi Jack,

Well, asking why I couldn't imagine hooking a sidecar to my V-Star sorta puts me in the position of knocking my own motorcycle, but I'll be honest and tell you why. Well, I did attempt to explain about power in my other post when I compared my 1200 to my 1500, but I'll try again. I don't like power; I love it. I don't care much about speed, although, you do need enough power to get to the speed that will keep you from getting your arse run over. Jerking a sidecar up to speed with most bikes requires "quite" a bit more from the bike than taking off without a sidecar. I've only owned my V-Star a few months and I really like it, but I think it would be something like driving a washing machine if it had a sidecar attached to it. It simply doesn't have the power to haul around a sidecar. I know that all sidecars are not the same and I've only owned one, but all of them add weight and wind resistance to the equation. In my opinion, a small engine + a sidecar = a miserable combination! I know they put sidecars on Vespas, but where do the drive them? I've driven my rig in most of the contiguous 48 states and part of Canada, and there aren't enough back roads anywhere that I've been to make it seem sensible to have a low powered bike with a sidecar attached (again that getting your arse run over thing comes to mind).
I agree with some of the other posts that the best thing to do would probably be to go to some rallies where you can look at and maybe drive some different bike, sidecar combinations. I know that sidecar rallies are pretty few and far between, so if you can't go to one of them, maybe you could check out some Goldwing rallies. All of the ones that I have been to have sidecar vendors with different setups and there are usually a few sidecar owners around who, most of the time, love to talk about their rigs.

Connie

Claude -- Thanks I'll send you an e-mail and see if we could meet at some point when you are in the southern part of the state.

Herwing -- Thanks for the explanation. I won't tell your V-star what you said. lol. How is gas mileage on the larger bike with the sidecar (I know sidecars drop the mpg a bit)?

I guess I am just going to have to rethink a bit and realize I will have to alter my thoughts on bike size and start looking in the 1000cc or so category. Just seems odd to me (I remember when that was a big bike!) bikes have gotten much larger since I last was riding.

I actually went to the Ron Dee Voo the other week. We went to get information on Urals. Unfortunately we timed it wrong and missed pretty much all of the Ural folks there (though Rich was nice it's better to get information from several sources). I didn't quite know how to start up a conversation with other folks and find out about their rigs (I'm not too great at the being social). At the time we were seriously looking at buying a new/used Ural (my wife likes the room in the sidecar, I like the trunk and being able to work on it -- the spare is nice as well). Since then we are having a tough time figuring out just how much maintenance they need. I can't tell if the folks who have them work on them all of the time because they want to or because they have too. One thing is certain they are forming their own subculture! If the fellow is here who had that beautiful green Triumph with the Watsonian sidecar you should be very, very proud of that rig!

Now I guess I need to try and reconcile the facts of a bigger bike with the same piddily amount we have to spend. Looks like I'll be a lurker here for awhile longer as I try to find something in our price range. Why can't I run my personal budget the way the government does? lol

Thanks again for all of the information. The more the better, as I'd rather hear this stuff before we spend the money than after.

jack

Gas mileage is not good with a sidecar, but I'm afraid that is one of those questions that I can't really answer. I just know that I can only get about 150 miles out of a tank of gas. A 1500 without a sidecar can go lots farther on a tank. The poor gas mileage is the reason that I left my rig at home and rode two up with my husband on our recent trip to Colorado. I hadn't ridden behind him on a trip for about ten years, but with gas prices like they are, we decided that taking his bike and my rig was going to be a bit too pricey. Anyway, I normally like not being able to go further than 150 miles on a tank because by the time my bike needs gas, I need a break! We take lots of trips and I don't think the V-Star would be a good long distance choice, but if gas prices keep climbing, I'm afraid my rig is going to be sitting at home by itself! (Thanks for not ratting me out to my V-Star).

Connie