I'm starting this thread to debunk some of the old-school thinking about our lowly old-school bike, the Russian Ural. I'd like to hear from others in a proactive yet critical manner.
We all have various expectations from our myriad of different bikes; from touring to cruising to down to the Post Office to pick up the mail, to taking your "best friend" out for an afternoon ride. The Ural has it's place in this long list of uses, and, like all bikes, it has both limitations and advantages, all depending on your expectation.
Consider the Ural (fondly quipped by some as, the "Urinal")... consider the Ural's place. First, you have a basic bike frame geometrically-archaic, with leading link forks that could be off a bike from the teens. The engine is a mere 750cc, (quite underpowered by today's standard), a steel sidecar that is built like a tank, but then you also have a very simple electrical system, new carbs, Brumbo brakes, a massive alternator and an overall bike built to take a beating.
I'm sure there are many Ural owner's reporting disappointing experiences with their Urals; maybe your expectation were set too high. Going backwards, technologically, is an advantage for many of us. Try to fix today's modern bikes on the side of a road; Sorry, call for help. It's the nature of technology, in many instances, to become more complicated with upgrades and those technological upgrades carry disadvantages to some of us. The evolution of the motorcycle has indeed left the Ural back in the Pleistocene. Well....that's where some of us like to hang...
When I bought my 06 Ural Gear-up (that's one of the two models with both reverse and two-wheel-drive capabilities, the other is the Patrol) my expectations were to have a bike that could travel at 55-60 mph, pack a lot of stuff as well as a friend, take the pavement to gravel roads anytime-anywhere, turn onto an ATV trail for miles of exploration, cross mud puddles that were ankle deep, go to higher altitudes and travel through the snow, get back on the highway and ride home....and do it all over again, and on the same bike. For me, the Ural is perfect for this application, however, we've taken multi-day treks within a 500 mile radius too. Other's have gone coast to coast, climbed into gnarly mountainous and boulder-laden regions and followed 4 x 4 trails that could make many us pucker-up and faint. It's a tough bike.
Consider the Ural, the tractor of motorcycles (after all, it is a military design; built to be quite tough, and still used in the military by many EU countries) one that may be fixed on the side of the road by a mechanically savvy owner, adjusted and tires changed wherever, whenever, and ready to perform to it's highest abilities by it's understanding owner.
So those of you who consider the Ural a lesser-form, an evolutionary has-been, check your expectations at the door, No, I won't meet you on the freeway on-ramp (I'd have to bring my Goldwing...), I'll meet you 25 miles down the gravel road at the big mud puddle, or up on the mountain in 6" of snow.
I believe one must measure their expectations of a machine before purchasing any bike; extensive research will better one's chances of being pleased with their purchase, and getting what they want out of their bike. If you set you're expectations to the abilities of the Urals, you'll love them; set your expectations to the abilities of a Goldwing, buy one. But don't discard the lowly Ural from what you've heard from other's, do your research and know that all bikes have their limitations in different environments.
OK, I've my helmet and boots on; I'm ready to be beaten-up! Ride safe...
Good post Dale!
Every year at the ISOK Ron Dee Voo we are pleased to see a pretty large contingent of Urals show up with at least one Dnepr thrown in. These guys know how to have fun within the limits of their machines. I am not saying it that way to knock the Urals at all becuase what is within their limits is out of the limits of many other rigs.
I suppose, especially in years past, some had gotten discouraged when they did not relaize what a Ural was all about. I think your post summed up a lot of that very well. They are not a gas and go freeway cruiser but that is not a bad thing.
I do wish that who ever is in charge of Ural at this point is able to carry on with the production of them for years to come. They are a unique marque in the sidecar world and have been able to acquire almost a cult following of folks that have been able to well define their definition of fun.
Nice URAL Claude! Heh,Hrh.
L.
Well heck Lonnie...It is 2" wider than a Ural. Someday I may still get a Ural though.
I enjoyed your post and the argument in favor of accepting the Ural's limitations in the spirit of an open mind. YOur description reminded me of why I've kept an old and operational British single for the past 30 plus years.
My Ariel Red Hunter from 1952 is a solo - no hack attached though, long ago, I had planned on putting a Bender Florin on her. One of the gifts we recieve from older bikes and older technologies is that we retain much more of our wrenching skills than our quietly fading memories would otherwise allow. My outfit, a painless 03 Road King with Liberty, spoils me rotten. I don't even think about tools when I take her out. While I like the car like convenience of the newer bike it is the old Ariel that brings me the greatest pleasure in keeping it running.
I've never owned a Ural outfit but I emphathize with what you are telling us. Good post!
Originally written by archon on 9/10/2008 1:18 PM
I enjoyed your post and the argument in favor of accepting the Ural's limitations in the spirit of an open mind. YOur description reminded me of why I've kept an old and operational British single for the past 30 plus years.
My Ariel Red Hunter from 1952 is a solo - no hack attached though, long ago, I had planned on putting a Bender Florin on her. One of the gifts we recieve from older bikes and older technologies is that we retain much more of our wrenching skills than our quietly fading memories would otherwise allow. My outfit, a painless 03 Road King with Liberty, spoils me rotten. I don't even think about tools when I take her out. While I like the car like convenience of the newer bike it is the old Ariel that brings me the greatest pleasure in keeping it running.
I've never owned a Ural outfit but I emphathize with what you are telling us. Good post!
You got it right in my book for whatever that is worth:-)
If people don't 'get it' it is probably not worth trying to explain it to 'em.
Originally written by Dale Beeks on 9/10/2008 11:50 AM
I'm starting this thread to debunk some of the old-school thinking about our lowly old-school bike, the Russian Ural. I'd like to hear from others in a proactive yet critical manner.
... do your research and know that all bikes have their limitations in different environments.
OK, I've my helmet and boots on; I'm ready to be beaten-up! Ride safe...
How's about we just offer a beer? I wholeheartedly agree.
Ural's have come along quite nicely, and are continuing to improve. They're gettin' costlier, too... ya' gets what ya' pays for.
See you 'round, sometime!
Tony
"You got it right in my book for whatever that is worth:-)
If people don't 'get it' it is probably not worth trying to explain it to 'em."
Claude,
Thanks and I agree that if people don't get it it's not worth trying to explain it to em. (Which reminds me of the oft asked question "why do you drive a sidecar")
Dave B.
Dale,
Glad you posted, and I have some questions for you (and the other experienced Ural owners). First let me say that I "used" to maintain my own auto's, till the computer chips took over the operation. My first car, a '67 Impala convertible, I had to rebuild the 327 engine from the block up (Dad's way of teaching me how it worked) and kept it in good running order for 10 years till I sold it. So for the questions:
1. How much "tinkering" is required to keep them in good running order?
2. Is it true you have to run supreme gas in them?
3. How long of a wait time for parts?
4. Are they reliable enough to be primary transportation?
5. If properly maintained, how long do they last?
6. How do they hold up in city stop&go traffic (overheating, etc...)?
I've often thought of getting one, reasons - something maybe I can actually maintain/fix myself - I live on an Island were the max speed limit is 50 mph (and only in couple of places) - many dirt roads to nice views on the Island - and they just look like a good time waiting to happen 🙂
Thanks,Bill
Bill:
I believe with the addition of input from other Ural owners, we can get most of your questions answered or at least approached.
1: Tinkering. I have only needed to tinker when the bike needs it (unless I'm doing something custom like the roll bar on the hack.)
2: I run from 89 to 93 octane gas, you don't need high octane gas but, like most engines, it runs better with 90 plus octane.
3: I've never had to wait more than a week for parts. Some parts seem to be sold out quickly, like racks and cosmetic stuff. I don't count those items as "required".
4: Depending on the distance of your commute, I'd say very reliable. I jump on the Ural and ride 50 to 200 miles on any given afternoon or weekend.
5: How long do they last? I can't answer this. I have only 12K clicks on the one ural and a few thousand on a Ural Retro (great bike). Maybe someone with more miles can answer this question. The super structure of the bike will last a lot longer than most bikes. Environment is always an issue.
6: City stop-and go traffic...Again, I'm not the person to ask about city stop and go traffic....these bikes were designed in the Urals (Siberia) so stop and go traffic in Anchorage Alaska would be OK where traffic in the heat of Las Vegas, not so good. Any desert Ural owners out there?
Keep in mind, most of the tweeking required on a new Ural will occure within the first 1000 miles. My 06 required new compliance fittings within a year, it was a warrantee issue dealing with an older poor design and took very little to get corrected.
Originally written by welnet on 9/10/2008 5:04 PM
1. How much "tinkering" is required to keep them in good running order?
2. Is it true you have to run supreme gas in them?
3. How long of a wait time for parts?
4. Are they reliable enough to be primary transportation?
5. If properly maintained, how long do they last?
6. How do they hold up in city stop&go traffic (overheating, etc...)?
I've often thought of getting one, reasons - something maybe I can actually maintain/fix myself - I live on an Island were the max speed limit is 50 mph (and only in couple of places) - many dirt roads to nice views on the Island - and they just look like a good time waiting to happen 🙂
Thanks,Bill
1. On average, just routine maintenance on newer model 750cc rigs. 650cc rigs probably require more, but even most of those guys do their own work on them and don't complain all that much. I'm no pro wrench, but I have been able to do everything from changing a flat, adjusting the carb, tire changing to adjusting the valves. No major problems on the '05 used Troyka, so routine maintenance isn't all that difficult for the novice.
2. No. This was what they were tested with for EPA requirements, but I run the crappiest low grade gasoline I can fine and have done very well so far. Just like a Model A Ford, the thing thrives on the crappy gas. If you hear pinging, you can always bump it up a notch at the filling station, but no problems with the grade of fuel for me, so far. Never tried out the expensive stuff to begin with, so my answer is biased by my own choice of gas grade used. Crappy gas works well, in my opinion. It also relieves some of the pain I feel in my wallet. 🙂
3. Depends upon what parts you speak of, but I have always ordered from Holopaw Corvette, in FLA. I believe the latest time of wait was probably a couple of days, but I have not had to order anything of significance as to big parts and such. The Texas dealership is much closer, but I like the honesty and security that I have gotten in dealing with Gene. I enjoy the Texas dealer, but I can get things quicker from Gene than I can him. If Gene tells you something is in the mail, you can bank on what he says. In any Ural site I have frequented, I don't see too many folks at all waiting for parts. I do see folks waiting on new rigs though. The wait for a new rig just about kills them, too.
4. That is a difficult question to answer, as it would probably depend upon any number of variables; just how you ride, how often, stop/starts, type of weather you ride in (lots of road salts, muck and so forth). Probably much more than I am thinking of, but you don't see a ton of used Urals on the market. They get snapped up fairly quickly these days. Anything newer than 2000 is likely to last quite a while, if properly maintained. # That is also a bad thing for the company, as they last long enough that owners are not trading them in on a new rig within a year or two. They really do hang onto them for the most part or even purchase a second one. Me, I don't plan on ridding myself of my Troyka. Even though that model is no longer produced by IMZ, for the most part, the parts and those parts that are interchangable are out there to be had.
6. The Texas riding season is a pretty good one. If you want to dress for winter, then a Ural can pretty near run all year. Me, I don't like the hot Texas sun, so there are days that I don't necessarily want to get out and sunburn my upper arms and such. I don't have a ton of stop and go traffic to worry over, but I have never had any problems with overheating. The leg guards work well in directing the heat off the jugs, but I have never had any to play with, myself. They love cold weather I am told, so it is pretty much an all around vehicle in many ways.
* More smiles per miles on a Ural. UDF (Ural delay factor) can be a good thing or a bad thing. If you enjoy meeting strangers and chatting until your tongue falls off, it is ok. If not, you are in for some bad times with a Ural. A Ural with a hack dog is a real chick magnet. They can be customized in a ton of ways to suit the owner and accessories don't generally cost as much as chrome goodies on other bikes. On-road or off-road, they will easily enjoy either as a rig.
Disadvantages:
- No good way to increase HP, speed and still maintain the gearing and ensure final drive does not break. It is a fantasy of many, but using stock components, it ain't gonna' happen for the most part.
- New rigs are waaaay overpriced.
-Dealer network sucks and always has, if you need a dealer close to you for support and guru guidance.
- Maintenance CDs suck, but are better than nothing. Newer copies are worse than the older ones. However, online downloads from IMZ are free an
Originally written by Pat Huey on 9/10/2008 6:27 PM
- New rigs are waaaay overpriced.
.
I totally disagree that Urals are "...waaaay overpriced....". At $13,500, that's way under the cost of most bikes with sidecar added, and, you can find them used for under 9K, some with remaining warrantees.
If everyone thought the same you guys would also have married a redhead.
(And you gals would have married a dashing figure such as me.) lol
I liked my Panhead till I could no longer put up with the kicking, kantankerous cold weather starting, parts vibrating off, inability to find mechanics and the proper parts to keep it in top shape.
Newer technology is where I'm at at this point of my life. Riding and smiling. I couldn't always afford that and spent a lot of my younger days watching those who could afford it go by, riding and smiling.
I like them all except for the evil handling so called "Custom Choppers" that are so prevalent in good weather and so very close to home. Not too many long riders there. Been there too and built that back when.
Ridin' & Smilin,
Lonnie
Lonnie
It amuses me that Ural owners have a compulsion to defend their choice of bike. It's a machine. It doesn't care what people say about it. I also often wonder about the mindset that has some Ural owners proudly referring to their Urals as a "Russian Piece of Crap". That's not a badge of honor in my book!
If I find myself referring to a machine as a piece of crap I sell it or junk it, whichever seems appropriate.
To be quite frank, the main reason I didn't buy a Ural was mostly the endless litany of woes related by Ural owners on the Ural boards.
That is a bit ironic, as you would have had to have hung out at a Ural board in order to see any litney of woes, as you mention. I guess it would depend upon what one considers a real woe in the first place, but I haven't seen any "smaller" litney of woes at any other motorcycle sites I have hung out at, myself. Most of the Ural woes have been overcome in the past few years and the remaining ones are quite often very easy fixes. A Ural is just like any other rig, though. If you like it, it meets your needs. If not, it don't.
It may not be a badge of honor, but is very similar to many comments I have always heard of Fords and such. Lots of street rodders always viewed their machines as a POC, but not necessarily because of any real problems. "My flathead POC alwasy runs hot." I bet I've heard that phrase a bizilion times by the flatty folk. I think the actual "Russion POC" phrase actually refers to the bad reputation the Urals had established for themselves back in the early 90's (Very desearved as well, I might add). No one would have agreed more with your statement than a Ural owner back then. However, that was when they were made at a different company and they have indeed progressed each year since then.
I guess "machines" is something each individual has a particular and individual feeling about. Most Urals have owner names, just like most antique cars and such. I see the same thing at Kawasaki Drifter sites and HD sites, so it does not seem all that uncommon to me. I doubt that the majority of motorcycle folks just view their bikes, rigs or whatever as simply a machine though. To each his own in that regard, but it ain't all that uncommon a thing to find folk rigidly attached to that non-feeling machine and willingness to personalize or humanize it a bit more with their feeling of pride; Ural, Honda, Harley or whatever. 🙂
Glad you didn't opt for a Ural, as it would not have been the rig for you or have met your needs, I suspect. No problem with that, as one needs to feel comfortable in what they purchase and also feel they can be honest in naming problems with that brand as well. My Troyka meets my needs though, so I can proudly say that my "Time Machine" is what it is to me. To someone else it may be a total POC with a whole different take on the phrase, but for me it is more than just a piece of machinery in many ways. :-)..........also, I can easily head over to Home Depot, Lowe's, Tractor Supply and many times find something that works very well in reducing any litney of woes my machine may be suffering from. I don't know many other brands that allow for that in keeping them running. 🙂
