How do you recover?

Run over the birds!?

Just pulling your leg. No idea what I'd have done.

I recently attended a sidecar training course, and found I hadn't been applying good technique in cornering... went on a ~200 mile ride yesterday through lots of twisty roads and was much better.

Try modulating the front brake while driving the rig - it does make a difference in handling; allowing you to take a decent pace while reducing the tendency to fly the car.

That said, I actively shift my weight and judiciously apply the front brake AFTER setting my entry speed. If it happens that I mis-judged the turn, I'd be hanging way off. Before taking the class (a second time) I would likely have had the same thing happen... no front brake modulation, just hanging off (and hanging on =8^0 ).

You may want to consider taking a S/TEP and see if there's any bad habits you've picked up? I know it helped me.
YMMV, of course!
Tony
Lacey, WA

Go down with speed and shift your weight BEFORE the bend. Making it inside it just becomes worse. Let others wonder about you monkeying as if on a race track. That doesn't matter. It meatters that YOU are on the safe side. And monkeying too late is as bad / worse as not to break.
Best is drive just as fast as you can see ahead. Here in CR you often can not say up front if its a 90º or 180º bend...
Good luck Unle Ernie
Regards Sven

Originally written by Peter Pan on 8/4/2008 7:20 PM
Best is drive just as fast as you can see ahead.

Wise words, Sven!
YES, BEFORE the turn is entered, body positioned properly... what I meant to say was before taking S/TEP again I hadn't realized the effect modulating the front brake had on handling.
First time I took the class was a little more than a year ago, *so I am still a NOOBIE* but they didn't really hit the subject well... second time through was at Vern's ADVENTURE Sidecar classes in Hood River; I think he did a better job of explaining/demonstrating the technique, as well as the fact he teaches on a pasture instead of pavement - the difference is obvious.

Actually, that isn't such a bad joke and can apply more often than one would think. If it comes to your life or that of a few birds, the choice should not require a lot of thinking. No one likes to think of hitting Bambi, Ol'Yeller or any bird or animal, but if you are going to swing out into oncomming traffic in order to miss them, then you really don't have time to think out all of the issues a great deal before impact. You risk your own life as well as others by making the wrong choice.

I have seen other such discussions where some folks say that application of the brake will dig the front nose of a hack down and can work. Some folks say application of the front brake won't help, and that increasing your speed will. Some folks say immediate reduction of speed helps. It is all specultation, as the scenario is something that essentially can't be replicated easily. Again, your reaction time seems much more important to me than much else. Being alert to the surroundings in front of you may give you a split second or two more to think out what you will do upon impact.

Me, I'd hope to be able to react by effectively shifting my weight, but that is sometimes easier to preach about than to actually do. The time allotted to figure out what to do (reaction time) is actually very little, so making the shift in weight and quickly deciding if you should brake or throttle up is something that you will likely never just what works best. Reaction time is something that even practice may not adequately reproduce for such a scenario. (Also, a shift in weight does not mean you did anything right. It is an effective shift in weight that really counts. If you scoot your butt the wrong direction, you simply add to problems, as oppsosed to resolving any).

I am not so sure you could easily replicate much to practice effectively in advoidance or reaction. I guess you could set out cones and such, but most of what happened is something that practice, practice, practice is the best you can do. There are a lot of what ifs to contend with in speculating what would work best, but I actually feel the option of hitting the birds may be viable, as it risks much less for the driver in the opposite lane and even less for yourself in many cases. Of course, you may end up on a PITA hit list, afterwards. 🙂

I have done this manuever (sans birds) on two occasions in 3600 miles of side carring . . . both times by simply carrying a little too much speed into a right hander. My recovery technique is simple. Slow down; go home; give my self a stern lecture about common sense, followed by , minimally, two cold beers.

I could tell now a story of a driver who parted a deer in two.....
(I found one missing front leg between the mufflers)
Simply as Pat says training is the key and in my eyes that will never be gained on a road or parking lot. For me always the fastest way to train my muskles were gravel roads and off raod. There at realtively low speeeds your reflects get trained in a two by one. What the heck about the soar muskles, scretches on the boat and the dirt to wash off. Safety comes first and without proper training not much can be done.

Here a german saying:
"Erfahrung kommt von fahren!"
Experience comes from driving.
Sven

I have almost 2K on my rig and I'm still approaching right turns with a lot of caution. My community has a number of hard turns on the main entry road and I've managed to fly the car going slowly around a couple of them when I'm not paying strict attention to my speed (which seems awfully slow compared to my car). That was long ago, and I've found there are some corners you just have to crawl around.

This is aggrivated by two problems that I've found. One is the fact that a lot of corners are banked the wrong way, and that's accentuated by the rig underneath you. This is generally a problem on older roads with a lot of curves.

But the fact that is probably more of an issue is the throttle in your right hand while making the turn, as well as the front brake that is also being controlled by that hand. The balance if the rig in a turn is maintained by speed and braking, and the hand is also straining to hold the handlebar around the turn, so this balance isn't easy to maintain all the time. I have a 96" motor on my rig and a slip of the throttle can be dramatic at some speeds, so I have found that I have to be very careful.

Generally, I've found that I tend to decelerate a bit when I approach a right hand turn in the road that I'm not familiar with, and that's especially true if I don't know what's around the bend. Once I get into the turn I begin to accelerate and make the traffic behind me a lot happier.

Another consideration when using the throttle/brake option is that this maneuver practiced on grass, dirt, or gravel will allow the rear wheel to drift fairly easily decreasing your turn radius. Concrete and asphalt surfaces don't react quite the same.
I prefer the same technique we used in my Autocross days: Shift down if necessary and brake before the turns. After the apex is reached, accelerate out of the turns.

Moderation and lots of it works for me these days, I'll leave the hanging off to the squids.

Lonnie

Seems like chopping the throttle would just get the rig over to the left faster, and I have a feeling that's what I did when I woke up; cut the gas and THEN hit the front brake.
I know there are going to be dogs, snakes, turtles (which I will avoid at all costs- especially on 2 whels), wild turkeys,. I know that the roads here are 2 lane at best, and often actually 1 1/2. Gravel in turns, fallen trees. Off camber decreasing-radius turns- all of it.
I suppose the lesson I keep being reminded of is -you just can't let your mind wander.

Hackin....

Could not agree more with you. Tighty righty, down shift, brake and a bit of fanny movement to the right. Of course my fanny is a bit big, so the results are good with little movement. But knocking off speed I think is a key here. Especially if you have linked brakes like mine. Or you can borrow my wife as balast. Now tippys with her in the chair.

Uber

I believe our experience on two wheels comes back to hurt us here. On two wheels, you often cut the corner sharper and lean into it (as long as you have confidance in the road surface and your tires). That's one of the thrills of motorcycling that you can't do in a car.

But, you can't do that on three wheels, so you have to suppress the natural urge and relearn safe turning. Slowing into the turn is against most of my natural instincts, but thankfully the instinct to remain upright has won out thus far. We've reviewed all the safety recommendations, and there'll be a test every time we ride.

As an aside, I have to say that most of my miles have been to and from work, which is a 25 mile ride in traffic (downtown DC). Yeah, I know that's not really a fun ride, but it gives me the experience I need, riding with tin cans. One problem I worried about is the tendancy for traffic to bunch up, bumper to bumper, at high speed. But, my Black Ultra apparently looks too much like a Police bike with Sidecar. Most cars hold back and give me six or seven car lengths of room and won't try to pass me. When I can slow for turns, they all follow along . . . . . .

But as mentioned in my earlier post, some of the City intersections are banked wrong and turning right can be harrowing in traffic, and right now on most downtown roadways the Tourists are in season . . . er . . . I mean it's Tourist season.

Tourist season,=> that gives nice front fender trophies and heart atacks when you turn flying deep....
Put in the cd player on full volume "sing me the song of death" from Ennio Moricone out of the film "once upon the time in the west"

For sure you get applause! Specially white noses from hitch hickers...
100% sure! I prooved it 20 years ago...with my radiorecorder in the s/c.

Have fun
Sven Peter

PS, Do you need a Harmonia?

Hit the birds, eat well!!!!
Look out for the bag of potatos and box of stuffing!