I've been off of two wheels for a couple of years now and am getting the itch again. I'm considering the purchase of a Harley sidecar rig and I've come upon a 2000 Road King Classic with a late-90's TLE sidecar attached. The bike has 20k miles on it and the owner is looking to get $14k for it. It's sitting in a friend's bike shop (in storage for the winter) and I haven't seen it yet.
According to my friend, the bike has been complimented with a great deal of chrome, it has a Champion reverse installed, and everything is in excellent condition.
It sounds like a good deal though it would need a little changing for me to be happy with it. The cast wheel on the sidecar would need to be replaced with a laced wheel to match the bike. The existing red paint would have to go (I hate red), and I'm told the sidecar rig needs some adjusting and alignment. But it would make a great winter project that would include a tear down, re-paint and powdercoat, and build-up again for a late spring debut.
I'm gonna head to the shop this weekend to have a look-see. Does the price sound good? Any pointers on things to look for? Thanks in advance.
If you figure $10 for the bike, and $4 for the SC, that sounds reasonable. Not a big deal, but reasonable. Xtra chrome is worth nothing except to the guy who puts it on.
The Nada guide has the 2000 Roadking at $9060.00 low, $10910.00 average, and a suggested list of $17005.00
Nada also lists a 1999 TLE at $2360.00 low, $3160.00 average, and suggested list of $5295.00
The average numbers come out to $1470.00
Used Hacks are not the easiest thing to find. Sounds good to me.
The Kelley Blue Book (kbb.com) shows a 2000 Road King at around $11,000 retail and a TLE sidecar from 2000 at $3,700. A. late 1990's sidecar might be a little lower. The disc brake came in after 1997, IIRC. I used 2000 because it was on the same page. LOL Obviously, private party sales or trade-ins would go much lower. The Kelley retail is based on sales from a dealer in perfect condition with advertising, overheard and other costs factored in.
NADA seems never to match Kelley for some reason. I don't know which is better but I've always used Kelley to get a rough figure.
$14,000 would be sort of OK for a price; not particularly great nor not terribly bad, just OK. Bike prices are really down right now. The dealers are also having trouble selling new ones and of course sidecars are usually a special order item from a dealer.
I think a Harley spoked wheel sells for about $500 new and a repaint, besides being a terrible amont of detail labor, would cost you upwards of $1,500 for a decent job from a painter approaching OEM quality, not counting the labor to R&R and detail the parts after the paint is dry.
Adjusting one with the proper setup to run straight wouldn't cost anything if you do it yourself as almost anyone could with the manual.
That wouldn't be a bad deal as is if you just wanted it in red. Otherwise, I'd look for one in a color that you can live with. I bought my bike and sidecar separately and both new in vvid black because Harley doesn't charge extra for vivid black. They even striped the sidecar to match my bike fron the VIN number. Fortunately, I would prefer black in any case so it made it easy. LOL.
The deciding factor for the sidecar rig in question would be location. If I could pick it up and ride it home from not too terribly far away, then I might consider it. If you have to ship it, that can get terribly expensive and it turns an OK deal into a financial chore.
My 2 cents.
Thanks for the advice thus far. I agree that the price on the rig is fair, but nothing spectacular.
This is a very important purchase for me and I want to buy something I truly want, not necessarily the first fair deal that comes along.
I'm thinking that I may go the route of purchasing the bike and sidecar separately. I love the look of the Heritage Springer along with a Liberty sidecar; that is my ideal rig. I think I would be just as well satisfied with a Road King Classic. However, it's definitely the Liberty car that I am after.
I know this is getting a little off-topic, but would there be a noticeable difference in the ride quality between a Harley softail rig versus a Harley touring rig? I doubt there's many folks that have had the opportunity to ride both, but I thought I'd ask.
The Harley Electra Glides and all of the Swing-arm Harleys have a superior ride to the Softtails. The Heritage's only advantage (beside the Retro styling) is a lower seating position which is moot with a sidecar attached. The Softtail Harleys are also the only big twins that still have rigid mounted motors instead of rubber mounts. (More vibration)
The Road King Classic has air adjustable rear shocks and a low maintenance front end (10K mile service interval on the springer's rocker bushings).
Lonnie
Originally written by JohnC on 10/31/2008 3:50 PM
Thanks for the advice thus far. I agree that the price on the rig is fair, but nothing spectacular.
This is a very important purchase for me and I want to buy something I truly want, not necessarily the first fair deal that comes along.
I'm thinking that I may go the route of purchasing the bike and sidecar separately. I love the look of the Heritage Springer along with a Liberty sidecar; that is my ideal rig. I think I would be just as well satisfied with a Road King Classic. However, it's definitely the Liberty car that I am after.
I know this is getting a little off-topic, but would there be a noticeable difference in the ride quality between a Harley softail rig versus a Harley touring rig? I doubt there's many folks that have had the opportunity to ride both, but I thought I'd ask.
Hello.
There's no comparison between the ride on a Softail (e.g. FXST) and a rubber-mounted FL series HD. The Softail has limited rear suspension travel and can be given to bottoming out unless modified to avoid this.
The Softails were "purpose-built" that is, for good looks and the simulation of a hard-tail frame. They are a great bike but they simply don't compare to an FL for ride and comfort.
I'm well aware that Liberty builds sidecars that work successfully with the Softails. That said, HD recommends against sidecar use for anything other than their FL series. (Yes, I know, for fear of contradiction, I'm also well aware that HD built sidecar mounts for their FXR's mainly for the polioe market (e.g. FXRP's, etc.) The FXR frame was patterned after the larger FL frame and were quite sturdy.
Another issue is if you are talking about a 2000 or later balanced motor in a Saftail, yes, they are somewhat smoother but they will still vibrate more than the rubber-mounted FL'as when at speed. It seems that they were balanced for less than 70 mph. I've ridden more than 25 different softails and I found that out fairly soon. I have not ridden a Softail with a sidecar, however, just solo. I do know people who have them and they seem to be quite pleased.
The Softail models fitted with the spring fork have the wrong rake and trail for a sidecar and the design of the forks makes it impossible to use the aftermarket triple trees which are available for the standard softails and the FL's. There may be some aftermarket forks for them but the price would be high. It is possible to buy raked frame cups - ones that are machined with an eccentric but that only gives additional rake and won't necessarily provide the ideal trail for a sidecar.
The regular Softails (with tube forks) are a good match for a Liberty. I've seen a number of those and, if you like the design of the sidecar, there's no reason not to consider one.
Remember also, that the latest FL's and Softails now have a six speed transmission with a God-Awful high final ratio, something like 2.79 or so. That's simply too high for a sidecar, even with a 96 cu.in. engine. That really would need to be addressed. The later model Harleys after the Shovelhead all have rather light flywheels and they don't take too well to being lugged.
There may be kits on the market about which I don't know to lower the primary ratios on the 2007 and later FL's but I'm not aware of them. It's possible that you could lower the overall ratio by changing the rear pulleys (and probably the belt) but again, that's pricey and lots and lots of labor. Additionally, any change to the rear belt ratio will throw the speedometer out of whack. That would require a converter unit which is available on the aftermarket for yet more $$$.
My 2 cents.
Please place abuse, contradictions, denials, sarcasm, and thoughtless critical comments about the above statements below this line. TIA. <g)
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if you want a springer, liberty is the only game.
they do a rake change on the front fork and have the mounts for the bike
to
Originally written by timo482 on 10/31/2008 6:58 PM
if you want a springer, liberty is the only game.
they do a rake change on the front fork and have the mounts for the bike
to
Yeah, I just looked at their website. They get $950.00 for re-machining the front forks on a Springer.
http://www.libertysidecars.com/product5.htm
How about "CUSTOM MADE HACK'S"??? "SKULL"
Thanks again everyone for your advice. I've had several motorcycles in the past 10 years or so, including a Harley Fat Boy and a Harley Road King Classic, and I am well aware of the inherent differences between the two bikes.
I agree completely that, at least on two wheels anyway, the Road King was the much better ride. I just didn't know if that was also true with a sidecar attached. But thanks to the the fine folks on this forum, that question has been put to rest and I know I should stick with a touring rig rather than a softail rig. So the search for a Road King begins....
Originally written by JohnC on 11/1/2008 2:30 PM
Thanks again everyone for your advice. I've had several motorcycles in the past 10 years or so, including a Harley Fat Boy and a Harley Road King Classic, and I am well aware of the inherent differences between the two bikes.
I agree completely that, at least on two wheels anyway, the Road King was the much better ride. I just didn't know if that was also true with a sidecar attached. But thanks to the the fine folks on this forum, that question has been put to rest and I know I should stick with a touring rig rather than a softail rig. So the search for a Road King begins....
Well, while you are at it, since you have decided to pick up one of the HD FL family, you should consider an Ultra. I suggest this for the following reasons:
1. Same ride as the Road King (air rear shocks are still used on later models)
2. Full radio complement: AM-FM Stereo with CD player and weather station, tunable from the handlebars.
3. CB Radio, handlebar tunable.
4. Intercomm, handlebar tunable. The Ultra comes with one headset and you can get a second one for the significant other. The HD ones work but they pale in comparison to J&M which I learned about from my Goldwing friends.
5. Cruise control, handlebar setable.
6. Accessory switch and power jack on front fork.
7. Same saddlebags as Road King plus Tour Pak.
8. Front lower fairings (unless you purchase a new Ultra sidecar, you'll have to find the right lower for a sidecar on eBay like I did or buy one from HD. The Road King and Classic come sans lower fairings.
9. Factory windshield. (I don't remember if a windshield is standard on the Road King...if it is, then this is the same and please forgive me)
10 Factory rider fairing with lots of funny little gauges that are cool to check now and then when you ride, especially if your wife likes to nag like mine sometimes does, LOL.
11. Rear Chrome goodies around your saddlebags. (Forgive me if the Road King has these, I don't recall)
12. Toolkit.....yeah, it's in there.
I don't mean to downgrade the Road King at all as I've ridden them extensively and several friends have them and they are a beautiful machine. It's only that I rode a 1993 FLHS with an HD TLE sidecar for about 6 years and it had no accessories whatsoever. So, the first chance I got, I picked up a new Ultra in 2004. It's now been superceded twice by newer versions of the Twin cam (In 2007 HD went to 96 cu. in on the Big Twins and in 2009 they went to a new frame and many other small changes).
On the other hand, the 88" Ultra (or Road King for that matter) is an ideal sidecar machine. I keep mine stock and it's got gobs of low-speed torque. With its 5 speed transmission and older-style primary design, gearing is available off the shelf to lower the final drive ratio from 3.15:1 to 3.37:1, which is as perfect a gearing for a sidecar with my engine as you could want.
Basically, I admit that I just like having lots of little gauges and switches to fool with when I ride. Other than that, the Road King would perform every bit as well.
Remember then that any FL prior to 2007 has an easy gearing change and plenty of torque to do the job. Also, changes to primary gearing won't affect the speedometer reading since data for that function comes from a transducer pickoff inside the transmission.
As far as HD sidecars, I ordered the standard TLE wih matching paint since I don't care for the radio pod inside the tub. The Ultra does have a nicer seat, however, but I ride mostly solo anyway, so for $2,300 less, I ordered the Standard TLE.
Good luck on your search. You don't have to listen to me....my wife sure doesn't! Hahahaha. LOL.
Originally written by gnm109 on 10/31/2008 10:03 PM
Yeah, I just looked at their website. They get $950.00 for re-machining the front forks on a Springer.
http://www.libertysidecars.com/product5.htm
That's about average for front end mods. Some are higher and some very few lower but overall that's about what you can expect to pay for any change.
Pure sentimental value. Over the years you normally put in much more money and/or work then you ever can get out of them at resale.
But they fill your soul and memory with incredible untaxable values...
Something you can take over to the other side of the Hades river when You ought to give back your spoon to Saint Peter.
Enjoy
Sven Peter
JohnC: I have a 1978 FLH with a 2001 Liberty car. You will love the Liberty car. I was in a bad car accident in 2000 and could not ride any more so I got the sidecar. My mechanic (that does the stuff I can't) put the car on my bike. He did it right the first time. The rig drives like a dream. I have around 25,000 miles on it now. Other than a new tire, when the original wore out nothing has been changed or adjusted. I also have the raked tree from Liberty. I have an S&S 93 inch Shovelhead style engine, Sputhe 5-speed with a reverse, a stock (neck type) steering damper. I sent a sadlebag lid to Liberty for a paint match when they painted the car, they did a fine job. You should take any sidecar class you can. I took the Evergreen class in Washington, it was well worth it, you do "ride a motorcycle and drive a sidecar" counter steering vs. direct steering and all the other stuff. You will love the stability and year-round riding a rig provides. Good driving to you.
