Flying the Chair

Probably best first done in a class, but...

You want a wide open lot. You want to keep your speed down, very slow. You can lift the car at almost a walk if you turn in to the right sharply.

In class I have a student sit on an un-ballasted rig and I lift the sidecar to the balance point. I usualy have a spotter on the left side to help catch the bike if it starts to go over too far.I have them shift thier wieght left and right. Most are suprised at how high you have to lift the sidecar to get to the balance point and how much shifting weight can move that point up or down.

Get a friend to help you with this static exercise. If they have a good back, try it again with your ballast in place. It will give you an idea for how it will feel when the sidecar comes up and illustrate how ballast and weight shifting effects the ballance of the sidecar.

Try to find a class. It is much easier to figure this stuff out with an instructor to guide you.

One other thing: Most rigs are not too dificult to fly, and it isn't any big deal as long as you keep your head. You can drive them all day with the hack in the air, once you get it figured out. Some rigs are so wide or the sidecar is so heavy, or the bike has such poor cornering clearance, that you can't fly it and keep your left foot on the peg because you are plowing up concrete. The static exercise can give you a clue there, if you can even lift it without hurting your back.

Probably best not to try flying those rigs with a very high balance point. They can fly, but they won't come up unless you make a mistake. They may go clear over very quickly if you go past the balance point. Again, if you take a class there should be rigs that can be flown safely for you to use. You can learn what it feels like and how to control it without risking your own machine.

Remember also that the further you put the ballast from the centerline of the bike the more effect it will have on the rig. Think of the sidecar frame as a lever attached to the bike.

Thanks for the advice. As far as a local class (within 200-300 miles,) there wasn't or isn't any as far as I know, I've checked. Indiana seems very light on sidecarists.
Before we put weight in the car, my son Mark at 325 pounds could yank the car up with his left foot on the footpeg and hands on the handlebar. I found it impossible with my 230 pounds and 79 year old back (and mind, LOL). The Valkyrie weight is low and the Spyder is set at 54" track width. Everything that we have done to install the car was done with help from the written word, here, from Motorvation, and Hals and Dave's suggestions.

I already have a place picked out for doing this, big parking lot with no obstructions. I'll take along a buddy.

After a static check of your balance point to see where it is, a large lot or smooth field will work well for practice flying the chair.
You can mark a circle of about 60' with most anything that can be seen from the bike. Circle the ring clockwise (right side car) or counterclockwise (for a left side car) at a fairly low speed that doesn't raise the sidecar. Slowly decrease the size of your circle while maintaining that same speed. Don't goose the throttle or change anything except the diameter of the circle you are turning. You will come to a point where the the car will be very light and start to lift slightly. As the circle gets smaller you can go completely around with the car wheel slightly off the ground. If you tighten the circle a bit you will raise the car to the balance point. At this time you have what amounts to a very lopsided SOLO motorcycle and you can go off in a straight line by countersteering to maintain your direction and balance (Just like with a solo bike).
At anytime you can let the car down by either turning left, easing off on the throttle, squeezing the clutch, or tapping the rear brake and the third wheel will land.
No spped or sudden movements are required, just slow and easy to start.
There is no real necessary reason to fly the chair but this exercise will let you realize what occurs IF the chair lifts at anytime and that it is controllable to a great degree with practice.
With no previous experience with "Flying the Chair" it can be a frightening experience for some when it is not expected and one may turn into oncoming traffic or off the road.
If desired, at a later date one can practice helping keep the car down by using the throttle and front brake to preload the front suspension to allow faster right turns or drifting techniques but this is a first step.

Easy does it,

Lonnie

Wayne, You wrote:" Let's face it, I approach this with a little nervousness as the bike will revert to countersteering when on two wheels. " Please just do the exercise that Hack'n suggested and forget about the statement above. It is not true that a bike reverts to countersteering as soon as the sidecar wheel leaves the ground.Hough says it and he is simply wrong!! Hal does not say it at all. Countersttering means you turn left to go right as on a solo bike. This does not happen on a sidecar rig as soon as the sidecar wheel leaves the ground, never has and never will. The fact can easily be proven by going in a circle away from the sidecar and when the sidecar wheel comes up turning the bar to the left. What happens? The sidecar comes down and you turn left. No, you DO NOT turn right as a solo bike would by turning the bars left. So much has been written and discussed on thsi it is ridiculous. If you simply do the exercise and tak eit easy at first as Lonnie suggested all will become clear. Forget about all the countersteering stuff.

Hi Wayne,

I know you said a class is 200-300 miles away from you, but, I have to chime in and give a vote to doing it anyway. Make a little vacation! I went 1500 miles out of my way last Spring and took Vernon's class. We made a vacation out of it, and had a great time making our way back to Phoenix from Oregon. It was extremely helpful to me.

In fact, I have been meaning to email Red Menace to thank him again, because: 2 weekends ago, I was out riding with a bunch of my 2-wheeled cronies. On a pretty basic trail, gravel, not difficult. Well, I flew the chair unintentionally. Boy, it's amazing the many thoughts that can go through your head in that split second! Suffice to say, the prevailing thought was, No! I'm not gonna crash, I will throttle down and shift weight further! Of course, I didn't crash ; ) The only bummer was, no one was there to see it!!! Man, I still can't believe that!

BUT, my point is, training and practice will prevail. My dad used to say, "Practice makes PERMANANT" and boy is that true. I lean and shift weight everytime, because I know that if I do, I will already be doing it when it counts.

And, you can't ask for a better teacher than Vernon!

Have fun!

FINALLY!! Claude and Lonnie, I thank you. I always had a big problem with Hough's idea that countersteering is immediate. It didn't make sense to me but that was all the input that I had. It reverts to a lopsided solo bike when the balance point is reached; now that makes sense!
However, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you mean clockwise circle, not CCW. Doing that exercise CCW would seem to me that the sidecar nose would scrape and then, bang!, highside as the MC rear wheel is levered off the ground.
Thanks to Red Menace and Kural too. As far as traveling any distance, no, not until I see how the reduced trail is going to work. The Valk was a double handful for me with the standard trail (6") and I would've been lucky to get 200 miles before my 79 year old bod would say I quit LOL.
I'm very glad that I didn't take Motorvation's advice and pick up the sidecar in Iowa and drive the rig back 700 miles through interstate traffic.
I'm copying all your responses as they are really helpful.

wayne

We should say the sidecar comes up when we turn toward the sidecar. Our UK, OZ friends and others have the chair on the left.Hough's book is full of good info but, yes, he is definatly wrong in his countersteering stance. He has to know it as he is a decent sidecar jockey. Oh well. If we could ever get it across that there is a difference in riding and having the sidecar wheel just come up and really 'flying the chair' when we ride in a solo bike mode with the thing balanced as a very lopsided motorcycle we would be ahead of the game. Hough has a lot of influnce on people and it is too bad that this portion of it has created a wall of error that is hard to knock down. Fact: THERE IS NO STEERING REVERSION AS SOON AS THE SIDECAR WHEEL LEAVES THE GROUND Fact: If you try to steer left to go right as soon as the sidecar wheel leaves the ground or under most situations the sidecar will come down. Bad thing is the rig will steer left and we can only hope there is no traffic coming in the opposing lane. If you ever see a tractor trailer coming with a sidecar rig stuffed in the grill it probably means the driver did not understand the right principles. If people would think more about what their rig is telling them when they PRACTICE regarding this and spend less time trying to prove a WRONG THEORY right we would all benefit from it. Good job on your descriptions Wayne. I admire your common sense and also the fact you are riding at 79. Heck I pray I can do the same at your age if I am still around. Best wishes 🙂

I gotta tell one last thing about myself.
When I was a little tyke some years ago, Dad couldn't figure out why I was always breaking the welded spokes on the front wheel of my tricycle.
I didn't tell him that I almost always rode it balanced on two wheels. If I remember right, the right rear wheel was always like new. He finally caught me at it one day. I didn't catch anything for it, but from then on, I rode it like a trike, LOL! For some reason or other, I never had a problem riding my first bicycle, especially after I put a 2.5 hp Whizzer in it. Little did I know then that I would graduate to a Matchless 500cc thumper in 1948.
Wayne

Being new myself I find this forum has more info on one page then I have been able to get in weeks surfing the web. Thanks to all for the great information.
Joe

glad to hear others comment on the "steering reversion" issue. most of the people i train to ride their new sidecar have read Hough's book,i tell them it is good material,but forget you read that part. i know two people that tried that technique,both crashed!

Glad to see you jump in here Dave. Those two are not the only ones who crashed I know a couple of folks as well. Both thought they were doing the right thing and both crashed. Both almost gave up sidecaring but finally found the real story and are still in the fold today. Good to see your post at SCT too 🙂

It is probably a mistake for me, a newbee to sidecars, to wade in here. I certainly don’t want to ruffle any feathers but I can’t help myself. I’ve been riding two wheelers on and off road for 43 years and have raced just about every form of motorcycle competition there is. In the recent past I’ve had the opportunity to put several thousand miles on a Goldwing equipped with retractable outriggers from www.safetyfeatures.com. That set up meant a transition from trike steering to two wheeled counter steering every time I took off and the opposite transition every time I came to a stop. Now I’ve put about 1500 miles on my rig and have spent a fair amount of practicing to fly the chair. So, maybe I’m qualified to comment, maybe not.

Lonnie’s post 22546 nails it in my opinion. I also think it is true that once the chair is in the air, the rig is single track vehicle that responds to counter steering. Before anybody goes postal on me, please consider this:

In theory it is true but in practice we don’t get the opportunity to experience this unless as Lonnie says; “If you tighten the circle a bit you will raise the car to the balance point. At this time you have what amounts to a very lopsided SOLO motorcycle and you can go off in a straight line by countersteering to maintain your direction and balance (Just like with a solo bike).”

To our friends in the UK, former colonies and Japan for that matter, please excuse the infraction. I’m going to speak of side cars mounted on the right only.

When a side car wheel leaves the ground in a right hand turn a left steering input to the handle bar puts the wheel down correct? Why is that? Counter steering. However, as soon as the wheel hits the ground no more counter steering and if that left steering input is maintained the rig will change direction and turn left. What would happen if the sidecar magically disappeared? The bike would continue to rotate around its longitudinal axis (that axis being a straight line running through the point the wheels contact the road)
and once it started leaning to the right it would continue to turn to the right

Lets go back to the that right hand turn when the wheels leave the ground. What would happen if we turned the handle bar more to the right? The rig will lean more to the left and side care wheel rises higher agreed? What happens to the direction of the rig? It will turn to the left if you maintain that right steering input. Why is that? Counter steering.

Our brains have trouble processing this concept. Hell, I know guys riding two wheelers longer than me that still reject the concept of counter steering.