Hi all! I've been riding on two wheels for about 10 years now, mostly on medium to heavy bikes (my current is a BMW R1200GS). I've been thinking about getting into the sidecar game for a few years (a URAL Raven is my dream setup, but a little pricey!) and one recently came up for sale in my area; I was hoping to get some advice from you folks about what to look for when I check it out before giving an offer. The rig for sale is a '78 Honda CB750a (semi-automatic) with about 10k miles and a sidecar of unknown origin...maybe it looks familiar to someone here? It has been recently painted, restored and reportedly runs well, although it probably needs an oil change and lube job. My questions are, does this look like a quality rig for the money ($2500)? Does anyone have experience using a CB750a with a hack and if so, would this be something reasonable to learn on? What should I be looking for when I go out to take a look at it? Are there some tell-tail signs I should be watching for that would indicate it's not safe or needs work? I'm familiar with what to look for on the motorcycle, but not on the hack. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated! I'll be sure to send updates!
Hopefully these pics will load...
Cheers,
Adam
Judging from the fender and wheel this is an early California Companion model. If it has torsional suspension that seems weak sometimes one or more of the the steel straps are broken. They can be replaced with torsion straps from a VW Beetle. most other items of concern are visually inspected, fiberglass condition, upholstery and sidecar mountings.
Looks like a neat little starter rig for the money.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
It looks like another variation of the Spirit Eagle has shown up. 😉
The price seems like a fair deal if the bike is in good running order and there are no hidden faults with the Sidecar Frame.
Some folks don't like the Honda-Matic and some just love it. If it is working properly and none of the Sidecar Brackets were Welded to it's frame you may be able to sell or trade it for more than a similar condition 5 speed CB will cost and make a little $$ later. The reason for doing that would be to get better performance after you get some time on the rig as is, as a learing tool.
On the Sidecar Frame and Struts look for Mounting Brackets that may have slipped or twisted on the Bike's frame. Also look over the entire Sidecar Frame for any Fatigue Cracks at the various welds. Check the Wheel Bearings and Swingarm too. Go to the Files section on this site and look at Hals book on how to set up a Sidecar in order to check for proper setup.
Remember you will need some Ballast in the Chair to keep it down on right hand turns and it needs to be secure. Some of the seats in those Spirit Eagles may not be secure enough to hold sandbags or other ballast in place under hard braking. Most had Hinges on the front that allowed the seat to flip forward and some had locks installed to hold it in place. Others may have had a slip in socket that may have been damaged over the years. in any case you won't want 100 lbs of sandbags, that are typicaly placed behind the seat. slidding forward to the nose the first time you clamp on the binders hard. That shift in weight would be a real eye opener for a newbe!
Lonnie which came first the Californa Companion or the Spirit Eagle?
And what are the differences in the Swingarm between the two?
Which suspension variation has held up the best over the decades?
I don't know the market where you are, but around here the 750A is a highly desireable model. In good running order, a nice looking one will bring $3000-$3500 by itself.
Wow, thank you for all the good, quick advice! I'm impressed with this board! I'll be sure to check out all the welds, springs etc. I've heard that the suspension on the 750a was factory set on the stiff side compared to the other 750s, which I would think would help out on this setup. I take it that standing on the left peg and pulling on the bars is a good way to check for weight-stability? The rig should stay on the ground? Should there be any noticeable toe-in on the 3rd wheel? Hopefully the current owner will let me take it out for a spin. I've already downloaded all the books from your well-stocked files section. Searching for those types of documents led me to your board. I'll try to get though most of the setup sections before I go out to see it. I'll be sure to let you know what I do and I look forward to being active on here if it all works out! I'd like to trade out the 750a for a manual shift if possible...a twist-and-go can be nice in traffic, but I love throwing my own gears. Thanks again, take care-
Adam
Originally written by GreenMachine on 4/30/2008 12:06 PM
Wow, thank you for all the good, quick advice! I'm impressed with this board! I'll be sure to check out all the welds, springs etc. I've heard that the suspension on the 750a was factory set on the stiff side compared to the other 750s, which I would think would help out on this setup. I take it that standing on the left peg and pulling on the bars is a good way to check for weight-stability? The rig should stay on the ground? Should there be any noticeable toe-in on the 3rd wheel? Hopefully the current owner will let me take it out for a spin. I've already downloaded all the books from your well-stocked files section. Searching for those types of documents led me to your board. I'll try to get though most of the setup sections before I go out to see it. I'll be sure to let you know what I do and I look forward to being active on here if it all works out! I'd like to trade out the 750a for a manual shift if possible...a twist-and-go can be nice in traffic, but I love throwing my own gears. Thanks again, take care-
Adam
If he won't let you take it out, make him take you for a ride in it.
Standing on the left peg, it's OK if it comes up a little, you just don't want it to come flying up like it's going to flip you off of the peg. Toe in is only about 1/2 inch, likewise lean is only one or two degrees. Just get him to give you a ride. If he has to fight to keep it on the road, it may need work, but doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. The important thing is it should be solid, like one big piece. If, when going down the road, the bike feels like it's going one way and the sidecar another, then you may want to pass on it. Honestly, for that money, there isn't going to be much reason to pass. It can all be corrected.
A personal rule is that I won't buy it if anything has been welded to the bike, but some people here will disagree with me on that.
Good Luck, and welcome to the circus.
Mike
All of the pre 1989 California Sidecars had a torsional suspension. Non adjustable except for ride heigth. Eariest had bronze bushings later they had roller bearings.
After 1989 they went to coil over shock suspension, a more controllable setup ridewise. Most modern sidecars use this type suspension.
American Eagle, Eagle Spirit, Spirit of America and some other sidecars are the same or cloned from the body molds of the CSC Companion, just as the Champion Escort bodies were copies of the California FSI & FSII.
The main difference was the swing-arms with coil over shock, the wheels and the fender designs.
Copying other successful marques has been a mainstay of the motorcycle and sidecar industry since the beginning. Pre WWII BMW and Steib clones are a prime example of multinational cloning.
Lonnie
We mounted a spirit eagle on a 750A for a friend. I do not remeber the track width but looking back on it we shoudl have probably made it wider. The automatic served him very well and actually the rig did fine but it definatly needed ballast to even get on the bike...LOL.
I feel the price is right and it looks like a nice outfit...if it IS as nice as i tlooks go for it. Do not be afraid to add ballast though and if it is a torsion suspension be ready to deal with that.
Did you purchase?
Good timing with your question; I went to look at it last night. It looks pretty nice (for a 30 year old bike), the hack looks great and is surprisingly comfortable. The bike has some mechanical issues to be worked out (a fair amount of brake work, new chain, loose cables, dead battery, some other electrical issues, and it liked to stall if I didn't run it with the choke out a little) and the balance feels off to me. The rig pulls to the right pretty hard. It looks like the bike is straight up or set to lean into the chair a bit, and I couldn't see any noticeable toe-in on the 3rd wheel. The chair is bracketed to the frame, which I was happy about, and it looks like everything is pretty easily adjustable. The seller agreed to let me take it to a local shop to check out how much it'll cost to get the bike in better mechanical condition. But the engine sounds great to me, and it passed the girlfriend test (although she says she's not sure she wants to ride in it, she says the position felt unsafe). I forgot to look under the chair for any evidence of suspension...nothing was obvious to me, and the bike's suspension was pretty noisy. But I think the fact that I'm used to my '05 BMW is keeping my expectations high. The guy selling it is a mechanic and reassembled the bike and hack basically from pieces. So to finally answer your question, I haven't bought it yet, but if everything checks out at the shop (meaning it's not that expensive to fix up and there aren't any major problems), then I'll buy it as soon as possible. I think the seller would help me adjust the setup, and from all my reading, it sounds like the balance issues can be easily worked out.
Don't assume that the seller knows HOW to set it up properly, just becuase he owns it. The number of poorly adjusted sidecars outnumbers the properly set up ones in my experience. There are a LOT of folks who are convinced that tires are only supposed to last 4000 miles on a sidecar, and a constant pull to the right is normal. Neither is true.
Looks like my sidecar I just purchased with a BMW 75/5. I am going to go through the bike real thorough before I bolt the car back on. The only difference I can see is the fender by the tail light is different and the wheel is spoked. I have a car battery behind the seat which should help with the ballast I hear about. I hope to get her on the road soon. At least around the neighborhood.
Looks like the same car to me! The guy who now owns it also rigged up a nice LED bar light under the rear that lights up with the brakes. I was thinking about using a car battery as well; actually I wanted to switch over the whole electric system to a car battery behind the seat. I hear the Hondamatics like to eat batteries. Can I ask you how much you spent on your sidecar? I haven't gone though on the deal yet with mine and it might help me feel one way or the other about the deal I'm getting. I'm hoping to have a report from my mechanic today or tomorrow; if the major issues on the bike can be fixed easily I'll buy it this weekend!
Probably paid more than I should have but I liked the bike and have a couple Beamers now so I have no problem working on the bikes. I paid $4,500 and the bike has 18K on it which is rather low for a 1970 BMW. The kid was selling for college money so I really did not haggle. I have been looking for a while. This was located about 5 miles from home so that was a big plus too. Wife was out of town with my daughter also so I guess the stars where in line. Now I have to sell one of my other /5's. I guess the R50/5 will have to go. Good luck
