Hal
Why is it not for the masses if its going to make the ride that much better? Can it be utilized on all types sidecars?????
Are there any style hacks that would not benefit from a trim adjuster(dual sport,harley,indian)?
Thanks
Hal,
You sly Rascal! Using your lean adjuster for a Chick magnet.
Who says "You can't teach an old dog new tricks?" LOL
Most of the lean or Tilt systems seem to be on heavier rigs (GL?) and doublewides.
Lonnie
I think the lean adjuster is also is very useful for rigs with a lighter bike and heavy tug, as mine is.The heavier tub pulls more on the lighter bike, therefore the need [use] of the lean adjuster.a heavier tug/tub or lighter tug/tub combo might not notice the difference in loads as much as the lighter tug.
OK - getting more curious here, as I own a "double-wide" EZS Summit on an R11RT. No one would accuse that rig of being svelt!
From the discusion it seems that adjusting trim makes tracking straighter which reduces steering effort and therefore fatigue. Does that sum it up?
I can see the value of adjusting trim for the situations that Bob mentioned - unloaded, passenger and gear, trailer, a long stretch on a highly cambered road. That said, my default trim, since I have no adjustment, seems to work well over the range of conditions my rig has seen and steering effort and fatique has never been a big deal - whih I have assumed is a function of the amount of trail I have.
I guess I have never seen a trim adjuster that would be effective in rapidly changing conditions. (The curvy moutain road scenario that Hal mentions.)Guess I need to find out more about Vern's adjuster!
This is why I’m a little spooked that maybe I’ve dropped the ball on the sidecar deal,
3 rigs in three years (no offence Bob) is the kinda goof I hope has not been made here, we’ll know soon enough though. My idea of a sidecar was to buy what HD has and hook it up, I had no idea the sidecar thing was so big a deal, with the setup, trim, safety, bunch of manufacturers and Model options, etc. etc. (I’ve been on hd’s and one AMF). However it does sound like the type of rig you get is relative to the riding conditions, roads, terrain, etc. hack, it sounds like some of you might be herding cattle with them.
Any way, looks like a lot to learn here. Don’t keep it a secret!!! 🙂
Don't let all the smart folks here scare you (there are a few dummies like me here too). I liken some of the information found here to be like talking to a NASCAR engineer and trying to apply that to the heap you drive to work all the time -- the theories are the same but they are being used and discussed at a different level. Knowing all of the crazy details and finding out about your options is always a good thing, but this only has to be as complicated as you make it. When it really comes down to it there are only a few questions that matter:
1.) Is the rig safe?
2.) Does it do what you want it to do (offroad, hauling people, cargo, etc)?
3.) Does it handle well enough for you to drive it safely and comfortably (even in emergencies)?
4.) Do you like the look of it?
5.) Does your wife like it? :lol
6.) Is it paid for?
My two cents (actual retail value 1.32 cents).
jack
Ah! - Now you are catching on!
Recall the original purpose of the sidecar was to serve as a vehicle deliberately designed to woo and transport the fair maiden.
It is now capable of fulfilling its original purpose. What with the double wide, reclining seat, surround sound, built-in bar, etc.
Need I say more??
Yes, cattle herding has been done with sidehacks, but not here. Try down in Aussieland where it used to be done by blacks (that is what they were called then) on horseback - really supurb riders - they did not have cowboys. Now it is done by flyboys in choppers. Times do change.
I only upgraded my sidecar..not the bike, from 'OK' to 'Great', to'Super'!!. I learned over the 3 year period a lot of good info here, about sidecars, safefty, setups in general, and what we needed. some dont need a 1 1/2 or double wide. but it sure is nice to have the extra room, and front opening access! I actualy only spent $2500 total, buying, selling and upgrading..not a bad figure at all, ending up with my new FII tub. [100 miles on it]Some riders will hit the button on the head with thier first rig, and keep it happily for years. some will find out later, they should have done this, got that, and upgraded.It's not necessary to blow a huge bundle on a rig. there are many great deals out there.You will find out that once you get a rig, you are "bitten"!!!!
Steve - you are correct. With a truly well balanced rig that will steer neutrally down the road - as you have, then moderate changes in loading should give no cause for grief or pain.
But an ill adjusted rig - such as I have driven - will literally tear your arms from your shoulders after about 6 to 8 hours of high speed hiway driving. That rig was very badly setup. Once setup correctly, however it was a joy to drive - a T120 w/ Steib TR500.
Again, most folks will not need it. Like the difference between an automatic tranny and a H-box, which are returning in popularity by the way after an almost complete death, or power brakes vs mechanical brakes, or power steering vs direct. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Sometimes.
And I guess there is or should be a difference between a tilt adjuster, small differences in tilt which can be performed slowly, and a lean adjuster, which can make BIG differences in lean in or out very quickly. The former are what I would describe as a PASSIVE system, while the latter is an ACTIVE system. Again, entirely different strokes for entirely different folks. The passive system does not require any difference in your driving style. The active system is for the experts, but newbies can use it if they leave the damn fool thing alone!
It is an option that for some it will excite, others it will intrigue, and others will ignore.
I mentioned going to a wider sidecar. for my self, the Terraplane would have served my purpose perfactly...heavey enough, manual trim adjuster, front opening , easy in and out for passengers ..this is a very big thing to consider if you will be carrying a passenger. make sure they are able to get in and out easily, or it will be a big PIA to them! consider their size physical conditions , ETC.My wife rides with me many times. the terraplane was fine getting in and out, but it was too narrow, and seat was too low on the floor, for her to get up and down. So we got the FII. wider, higher easy access. suits her and our dogs perfect. It all depends on personal needs. last one we buy!some just need a frame and box to haul their 'stuff' around.
Hal is dead wrong about his idea that sidecars were invented for attracting fair maidens(sorry Hal).
They were made so that Harley and Davidson could go hunting and fishing.
Check out all their old photos "hunting and fishing" !!!!
What happens to guys who use their hacks to attract chicks.
They fall in love, get married, have kids, buy a house, have no money, and had to put their hack up for sale in the classified section of the USCA website!!!!!.Only kidding but it just sounds sooo real.
PS happily married with 3 kids and one rig for sale!!!!!!!!
WRONG - Lenny - Harley had only JUST met Davidson when sidecars were developed:
"The history of the Harley-Davidson motorcycle began in Milwaukee in 1903. In Milwaukee, Bill Harley and Arthur Walter Davidson developed a one-cylinder motorcycle. Around the turn of the century the gasoline engine was developed and the one-cylinder motor was introduced. In 1901 the Indians were the first motorcycles..
In any event, Harley did not get into the sidecar business until way late in the game - maybe about 1914 or thereabouts, but they did use OTHER folks sidecars - such as the FLEXI, etc
1914 saw the addition on the sidecar to the Harley-Davidson. The Company also formally put their hand in the ring of motorcycle racing this year and would soon dominate the sport and become known as the "Wrecking Crew".
http://www.powerpassion.nl/harley/story-engels.html
I have been researching sidecar history the past 30 years and just want to keep the record straight. Need to get up earlier....
Steve - again for balance to this discussion, and to tie with another discussion re placement of passengers in or on a rig, the master himself, Mr. Goodwin, one day and for whatever reason, deceided to take his good charming wife on the PILLION instead of IN the Goody sidecar. In spite of his extraordinary powers to utilize the active lean to its full potential he still stuffed it into a canyon on his way to a rally. And yes we do have it faithfully recorded with his story and photos in the Sidecarist.
This should put to rest once and for all the ongoing debate about whether it is cool for the passenger to ride pillion with the chair empty. Even with the bike leaning over into the chair 10 plus degrees (which you canna do with a normal rigid hack) and with all his experience he still stuffed it. The damage fortunately was not that serious to his lady or him but the bike did need some repair work.
