I currently run a Harley FLHTC with Harley Sidecar.
It's a great rig but heavy and slow. My wife has fallen in love with the sidecar and really doesn't want to ride pillon any more.
I'm thinking about adding a sidecar to my R1200GS, which I love and selling the HD.
Does a GS a make good hack?
How stable are they?
It would seem that that because they're so tall they could be unstable.They HD is so big it's as stable as a car (that's part of the problem with it).
I suspect they must be a hoot off road, but what happens to the bikes on road abilities; Is it still a good general purpose bike?
Thanks for any guidence.
I think you'd be very pleased with the difference.
I think the GS would make a great hack if you don't go overboard with the size of the car.
It will take a while, 'cause he's on tour (until sometime in July!), but Mike Paull has a sidecar on his 1200GS so you might ask him about it. Mike has posted here. His email address: mmpaull@comcast.net
There is no particular reason that a GS with a sidecar *has* to be a dual sport or off road capable rig. Many dual sports see mostly paved roads.
If you are interested in the off road part of the equation, maybe the Red Menace (Vernon Wade) will chime in here, or look for some of his posts concerning dual sport sidecars (won't be hard to find!).
Good hunting!
There are dualsport hacks all over adventureriders.com. Check out the Dauntless Motors site. Lonnie- do you put any together? That chef guy in Atlanta just posted some awesome pix of his Ural on a GS. I think it's in the dog thread a little down from here. Look out though- that dog looks like it will reach out from the screen and grab your face.
You can see GS rigs in the dual sport section of our web site www.dauntlessmotors.com
On the R1200GS we can even add sidecar wheel drive.
Let me know if we can help.
Jay Giese
Dauntless Motors Corporation
866-638-1793
Originally written by DBrochu on 5/11/2006 10:00 AM
I currently run a Harley FLHTC with Harley Sidecar.
It's a great rig but heavy and slow. My wife has fallen in love with the sidecar and really doesn't want to ride pillon any more.
I'm thinking about adding a sidecar to my R1200GS, which I love and selling the HD.
Does a GS a make good hack?
How stable are they?
It would seem that that because they're so tall they could be unstable.They HD is so big it's as stable as a car (that's part of the problem with it).
I suspect they must be a hoot off road, but what happens to the bikes on road abilities; Is it still a good general purpose bike?
Thanks for any guidence.
They can be made to handle pretty good on the pavement. Go to 'Forums' at the top of the page then to the technical section then look at the threads named 'Torsion bar' and 'swaybar update'.These threads were begun due to the handling quirks of the high sitting, fairly soft sprung dual sport type rigs on the street. Reading them may help to answer your question on handling.
I have a 98 R1100GS with a Ural car (Dauntless Motors) mount... and the jury is still out on how "great" of a set-up it is... i have about 1200 miles on it since mounting it last month - but my past 8 years of experience have been riding a 96 Ural Tourist with leading link fork... a completely different type of machine... putting the mechanical/reliability issues aside (blew up the right side of the motor twice - toasted the electrical system once - plus countless other issues in a hard driven 10,000 miles) ... the Ural is an amazing driving motorcycle... I will not rush to judgement on my GS/Ural rig - as i have a spent rear shock that is going to be replaced on friday with a new, heavier duty Wilbers shock... but i do have some strange handling characteristics... i am trying to tackle one issue at a time - and i have been out to see Claude in PA to verify that my set-up is to within the recommended specs... i have vibration in the handlebars (not sure if it is a "wobble" from a technical point of view - as it is not that bad with my hands on the bars - but it is definitely a wobble between 35 and 50 if you let go at all - it will go into a tank slapper... the rig itself is sloppy - because of the additional travel in the suspension - but again - i will wait to reserve judgement until i install the new shock on friday... i am not convinced that the GS will not be a "good" handling rig - but i may be a shock, stabilizer, and possible sway bar away from that situation... i am reluctant to put a sway bar on - should i get to that point - because i also like driving off road and in New York City - which is for all practical intents and purposes the same thing as off road (i missed a pot hole in the meat packing district last night that would have swallowed the sidecar whole) ... anyway, feel free to contact me if you want my opinion on my experience to date with my car/mount... or any of the obstacles i have had to setting it up... i am trying to take a scientific approach - changing one item at a time... and hoping to refine and tweak until i get to an acceptable level of handling - but my experience has not been "bolt it on and go" ... may just be me...
I've a 97 GS/Ural/Leverite. I'm just back from a 1700 mile round trip to the Madison BMW club's rally in Soldiers Grove WI. The bike and car, as always, handled just fine. Not in the same category as a high dollar EML or EZS conversion, but all corners can be taken above the posted speed limit. The rig is very stable a highway speeds (high)and in the dirt will generally slide out before the car or rear wheel will lift. Rear wheel traction is poor in tight off-road lefts. I run the car's spring-over-shock at max preload on-road and minimum off-road. I've discussed a sway-bar with Claude and several riders who have recently installed them. I've not yet made up my mind on it as I'm in the dirt often and it looks like a sway-bar will make the suspension a little stiff on and way too stiff off... Danny
I recently had a similar dilemma. Connie has Fibromyalgia and can't ride long distances pillion. Bought a Ural Retro for kicks, she absolutely loves it, we rode 1800 miles from Vancouver to Los Angeles.
However, the Ural is old technology, not a lot of power.
My initial thought was to hack either my Road King or my R1200GS.
Decided the RK had too many miles, and the GS was my favorite bike,plus it was rather expensive and i would likely just get another one.
SO, I bought a 2005 Suzuki DL1000 V Strom dual sport. In many ways, it is every bit as capable as the GS, plus a little more power. A perfect low mileage one cost $6-7K or so.New one, onine, about $8k.
Mine is now at Dauntless getting a Ural sidecar. I am also getting TILT and leading fork legs so it hopefully will handle well.
Just another alternative
greg
Originally written by Danny on 5/22/2006 8:31 PM
I've a 97 GS/Ural/Leverite. I'm just back from a 1700 mile round trip to the Madison BMW club's rally in Soldiers Grove WI. The bike and car, as always, handled just fine. Not in the same category as a high dollar EML or EZS conversion, but all corners can be taken above the posted speed limit. The rig is very stable a highway speeds (high)and in the dirt will generally slide out before the car or rear wheel will lift. Rear wheel traction is poor in tight off-road lefts. I run the car's spring-over-shock at max preload on-road and minimum off-road. I've discussed a sway-bar with Claude and several riders who have recently installed them. I've not yet made up my mind on it as I'm in the dirt often and it looks like a sway-bar will make the suspension a little stiff on and way too stiff off... Danny
I am sure you all have probably read the threads here related to swaybars. If not be sure to do so. Handling is a subjective issue and how a rig handles on or off road can be full of compromises. To me, especially on the high sitting dual sport type rigs with long travel suspensions the swaybar is a great addition to make one of these rig handle okay on the street. It isn't the right handers that will bite you on these rigs but the lefties.
Anti swaybars can be made stiff or soft dependant upon the wishes of the rider so they do not automtically make a rig stiff so to speak. In fact when on a straight road the ride is quite similar to the original ride as far as harshness goes.
I have ridden Ural guys rig and can say that the front end of the sidecar can be made to hit the pavement without too much effort.This was the sam ehadnling issue with Bemmerchef and twin twin's rigs before the swaybars were added. All of these machines are identical.
A swaybar would help this issue to go away on the street. In the loose surface stuff it can also be an asset in keeping the rear tire hooked up to the road surface as it will help prevent the rear suspension from unloading as it does. In the true rough stuff one end of the bar can be unhooked easily to allow full and more independant suspension travel and operation. When unhooked this way the bar will simply float in the mounts and not do anything.
Doing one modification at a time as uralguy mentioned is a good sytematic approach. One will learn a lot this way and hopefully come to the points their goals were set on. The other approach of doing what has been proven to work for oithers is also a valid one and may be less costly in the long run. The fear of 'monkey see monkey do' just for the sake of doing it is always a concern though. Best bet is to try and ride a rig that has been converted to whatever setup one has in mind and form an opinion from there.
Again handling is a subjective thing. My feelings on how a rig should corner in a more flat stance on the street with decent speed in the twisties may be differnt than others ideas of a good handling rig. Bottom line is to be safe and have fun.
Thanks to everyone for the input.
I'm still thinking about it; do I really need a dual sport rig? We'll see. Have to sell the Harley first anyway.
Thanks again.
David,
I think the current Dual Sport sidecar rig trend is quite similar to the 4 wheel drive SUV Craze. Keeping up with the Joneses syndrome. Most don't get used for their designed purpose much, if at all.
Most people who buy them would probably be a lot better served with a vehicle more suited to their particular driving style and limitations.
Americans in general have a tendency to overbuy. Snow Bunnies start with world class skis. Casual riders buy a world class mountain bike (to hang up on the wall). Road only and returning motorcyclists seem to lean toward a 1200GS Adventure when an inexpensive Nip cruiser would more than fill their needs. If a Beemer with a hack is your choice of Marque there are many other combos that would be more fun and comfortable for your wife and yourself and you'd still be able to hit the gravel or dirt roads occasionally.
But, if you're headed for the Barstow to Vegas or Baja, by all means go hardcore.
Lonnie
Originally written by Hack'n on 6/22/2006 12:08 AM
David,
I think the current Dual Sport sidecar rig trend is quite similar to the 4 wheel drive SUV Craze. Keeping up with the Joneses syndrome. Most don't get used for their designed purpose much, if at all.
Most people who buy them would probably be a lot better served with a vehicle more suited to their particular driving style and limitations.
Americans in general have a tendency to overbuy. Snow Bunnies start with world class skis. Casual riders buy a world class mountain bike (to hang up on the wall). Road only and returning motorcyclists seem to lean toward a 1200GS Adventure when an inexpensive Nip cruiser would more than fill their needs. If a Beemer with a hack is your choice of Marque there are many other combos that would be more fun and comfortable for your wife and yourself and you'd still be able to hit the gravel or dirt roads occasionally.
But, if you're headed for the Barstow to Vegas or Baja, by all means go hardcore.Lonnie
Shhhhhhhhh Lonnie,
Where do you think we get the great deals on barely used second hand stuff? :0)
Originally written by Hack'n on 6/22/2006 1:52 AM
David,
I think the current Dual Sport sidecar rig trend is quite similar to the 4 wheel drive SUV Craze. Keeping up with the Joneses syndrome. Most don't get used for their designed purpose much, if at all.
Most people who buy them would probably be a lot better served with a vehicle more suited to their particular driving style and limitations.
Americans in general have a tendency to overbuy. Snow Bunnies start with world class skis. Casual riders buy a world class mountain bike (to hang up on the wall). Road only and returning motorcyclists seem to lean toward a 1200GS Adventure when an inexpensive Nip cruiser would more than fill their needs. If a Beemer with a hack is your choice of Marque there are many other combos that would be more fun and comfortable for your wife and yourself and you'd still be able to hit the gravel or dirt roads occasionally.
But, if you're headed for the Barstow to Vegas or Baja, by all means go hardcore.Lonnie
Lot of truth in what Lonnie says. But, people want a certain type machine for many reasons. The trend towards dual sport sidecars is not a bad thing on anykind of road surface IF they are setup to deal with the conditions. I am afraid many of them on the road now are not set up to do too well on paved surfaces. A high centered, sofly sprung long trav3el suspensiopn outfit in that form is not th ebest handler around. Can they be made to handle and not lose 'the look'? No question about it. Yes, th ecompromise can be narrowed with a few changes here and there that will not break the bank. In other words if anyone likes th elook of a dual sport rig and th emindset that goes along with them then do not let the few hurdles that must be crossed to get it to handle on the street stop you from getting what you want.
Everyone, of course, has their own opinions on how variuos machines handle. I sometimes think some get these views from reading magazines, talking to others, etc. I.e. they don't actually own the bikes. Not bad, but tough to get an accurate impression of a bike this way.
Personally, I find dual sport bikes very comfortable to ride. I like the upright riding position, the leg room, and the ability to actually have footpegs I can use to postion my weight. (Although I have one, and love it, the really heavy bikes have their own set of limitaions)
In BMW circles, many would say the 12GS is the best "roadbike" BMW makes.
Big cruisers are really nice, but, they are.... big ... cruisers.
Smaller bike are also nice, but I have a few, and they don't fit the criteria of going long distances.
I purchased a 1000cc VStrom as a tug, mostly for comfort and reliability. Want to do some long distance stuff as well as local. I probably won't go off road a lot, but I like the idea that I can, particularly in SoCal, Arizona, and Mexico, where i plan to ride it.
jmho
greg
