I've a very light weight side car rig (18BHP poses some limitations)and swing out to Pike county PA on numerous occasions. I usually stay within a 100 mile radius of home turf lower hudson valley NY and ride the secondary and side roads.
What I've found is that weight distribution and speed control are critical. I anticipate turns and set my self up to shift weight while riding solo. Having a passenger in the sidecar again changes a few apects.
Read and review the info you've gotten already and as posted practice. I suggest finding an open parking lot on a sunday and do straight line riding along with panic braking, figure 8s both left and right, intentionally fly the sidecar while turning to the right. Turning to the left you'll be surprised at how tightly the sidecar can turn. Even with my modest rig I can brake traction and skid the turn.
In Milford PA there is a small shop that has some experience with Royal Enfield and Ural sidecar rigs. They got a handle on setting up the geometry.
But start slowly and easily.
Practice empty. After that, everything gets easy. The more weight, the more 'predictible' my HD rig feels and the faster I can go. I keep 60 pounds of dive weights behind the seat and on top of the frame when I don't have a passenger. A purist would turn up their nose, but that's what works for me.
Practicing in a safe area with no ballast is a good idea. Adding ballast is also a good idea when learning and especially if the chair is a light one. Permanent ballast is fine too. Do not let anyone ever tell you that taking ballast out is some kind of feather in your cap. If you need it run it and if it makes you feel more secure and stable on the road make it permanent.. No problem.
In speakin of left hand turns retro rig wrote:
>>Even with my modest rig I can brake traction and skid the turn.<<
Left handers can be a lot of fun and a confidence boost when learning. It shouLD be said that in a left hander, especially with a lighter rig, the rear wheel of the bike can come off the ground. This is not something to play with as it is very tough on sidecar noses and at a greater speed it is even possible to flip the bike over the sidecar. When the rear wheel comes up it will do so very quickly. What happens after that pretty much depends on how much force was generated to make the wheel coem up to begin with. The rider is at the mercy of these forces and can only hope for the best. Take it easy and learn your rig without getting too agressive.
I have yet to "fly the hack". You guys are saying to practice it and I will try it but is there any concern the rig could flip ? I have the HD Ultra and HD car so its a heavy rig.
Scrubs
Spring is just around the corner, ask Phil!
Scrubs,
Just find yourself an empty parking lot or smooth field without any obstructions. Your practice area can be marked or not. Start driving in a large clockwise circle (60' or so) in a lower gear. Without changing your speed or making any sudden jerks on the handlebars, slowly decrease the diameter of the circle until you feel the sidecar starting to lift. It may slightly lift and resettle as you reach the lift point. If you keep decreasing the the width of the circle the sidecar will remain lofted until you reach the point of balance. At that point you have what is basically a balanced lopsided motorcycle that can be steered just like a 2 wheeled solo bike. By countersteering, Where you push on the left bar to turn left and push right to go right. This change of steering methods from three wheel steering to the two wheel method used when the sidecar is lofted (or flying the chair), is called "Revisionary steering".
To practice this: Use the right hand circle to get the chair lofted without any sudden jerky movements and when the balance point is reached, drive off the circle in a straight line and maintain the two wheeled balance by countersteering just as you would with a solo bike.
I have had novice sidecarists being able to perform this maneuver within ten to fifteen minutes of range practice.
If at first you feel a little anxious when the car lifts, it will resettle quickly by using the clutch, decreasing your speed, straightening the handlebars, or a light tap on the brake.
As your proficiency improves, espesially with a familiar rig, you will be able to do this with a sudden swerve movement to loft the car, then drive in a straight line in your own lane of traffic. Even with a loaded hack.
The wisdom of this practice is that sooner or later you may come to a situation where you may have the sidecar lift. if you don't know what to expect when this happens, the normal reaction is to straighten out the steering which just may put you in the other lane facing oncoming traffic.
A word to the wise: Be aware though that some police officers may view this action as reckless even if you have the rig perfectly in control.
Just like getting to Carnegie Hall, you must practice, practice, practice.
Flying the car is easy enough and definetly should be practiced. Pay attention to your speeds, set up for your turns, and after awhile you'll develop a feel for how your bike responds.
You can't plan for every thing so being able to ride the rig with the right wheeel (left for the Aussies, Japanese, Indian and British riders) up can be beneficial for your safety. I've driven up the main street in the village where I live with the wheel airborne. Needless to say tailgaters do think twice and the cops just laugh (it helps to know the police).
Just a few things to consider. The bearings in the wheel are not designed to take the impact of landing and start spinning at the same time. Tire rubber will scrub on tarmac similar to aircraft tires when landing, this can cause premature wear and or pressure loss. The resistance of landing the car may slow down the right (left for the before mentioned groups) side of the rig enough to swing you to the curb or shoulder of the road if you are not ready or expecting it.
As a long time sidecarist, I see absolutely no skill in being able to FLY the sidecar. It is a technique that can be done, but is the same as being able to drive your family van on its side - it can be done, but so what?
If you really MUST do it, do it the easy way. Take the sidecar body off. You will be able to fly the chair very easily so you will know it can be done. You can do it at walking speed. No need to get excited and tear up your rig.
There is no practical purpose at all in normal driving. Except one. Parades. Some older towns use a clown figure with an old sidecar and have hime lead the Xmas or other parade with his sidecar flying all the time. If you want to develop this skill for this purpose, go right ahead.
Otherwise, you put tremendous strain on your rig where it does not need to be stressed when you pick it up, and espesially when you slam it back down.
Instead, practice how to control your rig under normal high speed cornering keeping your rig under full control using the practices you have learnt by weight shifting, throttle control, down shifting, partial front braking, and driving like a pro instead of acting like a bloody jackass. The life you save by becoming a better sidecar driver may really be your own.
Hal kendall
As a long time sidecarist, I see absolutely no skill in being able to FLY the sidecar. It is a technique that can be done, but is the same as being able to drive your family van on its side - it can be done, but so what?
If you really MUST do it, do it the easy way. Take the sidecar body off. You will be able to fly the chair very easily so you will know it can be done. You can do it at walking speed. No need to get excited and tear up your rig.
There is no practical purpose at all in normal driving. Except one. Parades. Some older towns use a clown figure with an old sidecar and have hime lead the Xmas or other parade with his sidecar flying all the time. If you want to develop this skill for this purpose, go right ahead.
Otherwise, you put tremendous strain on your rig where it does not need to be stressed when you pick it up, and espesially when you slam it back down.
Instead, practice how to control your rig under normal high speed cornering keeping your rig under full control using the practices you have learnt by weight shifting, throttle control, down shifting, partial front braking, and driving like a pro instead of acting like a bloody jackass. The life you save by becoming a better sidecar driver may really be your own.
Hal kendall
As a long time sidecarist, I see absolutely no skill in being able to FLY the sidecar. It is a technique that can be done, but is the same as being able to drive your family van on its side - it can be done, but so what?
If you really MUST do it, do it the easy way. Take the sidecar body off. You will be able to fly the chair very easily so you will know it can be done. You can do it at walking speed. No need to get excited and tear up your rig.
There is no practical purpose at all in normal driving. Except one. Parades. Some older towns use a clown figure with an old sidecar and have hime lead the Xmas or other parade with his sidecar flying all the time. If you want to develop this skill for this purpose, go right ahead.
Otherwise, you put tremendous strain on your rig where it does not need to be stressed when you pick it up, and espesially when you slam it back down.
Instead, practice how to control your rig under normal high speed cornering keeping your rig under full control using the practices you have learnt by weight shifting, throttle control, down shifting, partial front braking, and driving like a pro instead of acting like a bloody jackass. The life you save by becoming a better sidecar driver may really be your own.
Hal kendall
As a long time sidecarist, I see absolutely no skill in being able to FLY the sidecar. It is a technique that can be done, but is the same as being able to drive your family van on its side - it can be done, but so what?
If you really MUST do it, do it the easy way. Take the sidecar body off. You will be able to fly the chair very easily so you will know it can be done. You can do it at walking speed. No need to get excited and tear up your rig.
There is no practical purpose at all in normal driving. Except one. Parades. Some older towns use a clown figure with an old sidecar and have hime lead the Xmas or other parade with his sidecar flying all the time. If you want to develop this skill for this purpose, go right ahead.
Otherwise, you put tremendous strain on your rig where it does not need to be stressed when you pick it up, and espesially when you slam it back down.
Instead, practice how to control your rig under normal high speed cornering keeping your rig under full control using the practices you have learnt by weight shifting, throttle control, down shifting, partial front braking, and driving like a pro instead of acting like a bloody jackass. The life you save by becoming a better sidecar driver may really be your own.
Hal kendall
Hal makes an excellent point. 'Flying the chair' and hard cornering are not one and the same. It is best to practice in an empty parking lot. Go in circles increasing the speed until the sidecar gets light. You will instinctively correct and the circle will be broken. Do this for a while and soon you will feel more at ease with it. The trick to proficient right hand turns is to enter the turn at a safe speed and by setting up as late an apex as possible. Then once you can see that all is clear you can accelerate through the turn. Techniques such as feathering the fron tbrake also are good to learn. As skills develope you will begin to know your rig beter and better. Soon you will be able to corner safely and at spped. Yes, the sidecar wheel may be floating above the ground when in the turn and coming out of it but this IS NOT flying the chair it is simple agressive cornering.
Entering a right hander too fast is setting one up for a blooper. The speed will come but the skills need to be developed first. Leave room for unforseen road conditions especially if on an unfamiliar road.Rock in the road , animals and other hazards can lurk for the unwary. Decreasingradius turns can also be an eye opener. These things are a great reasin to practice taking a late apex by entering the turn as high as possible and staying out ther euntil the apex can be seen. This alone will allow cornering speeds to go up drastically and safely. Going into a turn low can make you swing wide upon the exit. It can also cause you to cross the centerline if speed or skill are at fault. This can be bad of course if traffic is coming but it can also make for a big eyed experience as you go over the centeerline and the road camber changes to negative.
None of this has anything to do with driving around with the chair in the air. Nothing wrong with learning to do it but the need is not really there as a priority. Yes, I play around as much as anyone but not out of necessity. With practice you will find you can turn left and right with the sidecar off the ground..you can even come to a complete stop and start off again but this is not the key to riding smartly and quickly through the twisties.
Wow, these are some great posts. I really can't wait for this weather to break. Really appreciate all the advice. I'll be sure to try the techniques and post back.
Thanks again,
Scrubs
Claude: Don't forget about that burger!
Hal,
I must agree in regards to grandstanding, however I feel more comfortable having a new operator be aware of the balance point of the rig and knowing what occurs when the sidecar wheel is lofted. Whether during a turn in traffic or a swerve to avoid a collision. The normal panic reaction seems to be to straighten out the handlebars which can lead to disasterous consequences. That small amount of extra knowledge can be invaluable to a newbie. That first unexpected loft can be an real eye opener.
In a perfect world everyone would have access to and use professional training facilities to hone their skills. In our world it seems that most do not. I was self taught myself (with a little help from your books).
This is my opinion, feel free to differ.
Lonnie Cook
Northwest Sidecar
The normal panic reaction you speak of is because you are attempting to still drive your two track sidecar rig as a solo rig. You must forget ALL your solo training and experience. The more solo riding you have done the longer it will take the newbie to become expert on a sidecar rig. And the continued references to countersteering are totally counterproductive because you are prolonging the inevitable - you are hanging onto a rope that links back to your solo training. Hence, it is inevitable that as soon as your sidecar just begins to lift you then panic and want to get the wheel down because you are preconditioned to this flying the chair nonsense. All you had to do was to continue to drive it through the curve.
Have you never been on a race track and seen four wheeler race cars go through tigh corners with the inside front wheel high in the air? They are no more in danger of overturning than you were when the sidecar wheel lifted a few inches. It is part of the game.
Better you taught in the classroom the basic fundamentals of overturning forces and restoring forces, and more importantly, where and how they act - through the center of gravity, and the resulting overturning moments and the restoring moments so the students can really see at what point will countersteering apply. Then they will see that it would apply ONLY when the center of gravity had been lifted so high and so to the left that it would be directly over the line between the front wheel and the rear wheel of the motor cycle. And that is a point of almost total instability where you do not really want to go on a heavily travelled highway. No way, no how. Never. Under any circumstances. Do not do it. So why try and become an expert in it.
Rather, become an expert in controlling your rig. Learn the basic techniques of how to drive correctly. To start for the newbie - low speed into right handers, lots of ballast. Practice. Learn to feather the front brake. Learn the throttle technique. Learn the gear down technique. Gradually. Over weeks, months, as you get experience. Learn to pick up the sidecar wheel in a controlled pace. A few inches. A few more inches. You do not need to pick it up to where it flips over. OK, do so in an empty field, do it for a lark if you want, but you do not need to be able to drive it right and left - for what purpose?
Learn to drive your rig as a sidecar rig - not as a parade for XMAS - unless that is your desire. The longer you hang onto your solo skills the longer it will take to become proficient as a sidecarist. Now, once you ever become a proficient sidecarist, you can usually be able to handle both a solo or a sidecar rig - but not while you are desparately trying to make that transition.
May the peace be with you.
Hal Kendall
