Does rake affect ride?

Too many undesignated variables to answer directly.  Let's start with what kind of tug are you considering?  Car make and model?  Trails or on-road?  Touring or jaunting?  Monkey with a soft tuchus or a dog that's just happy to be with you?

Yep - should provided some of those details...  Most likely will be a Goldwing (1800) and looking for a Hannigan sidecar.  The sidecar passenger(s) will be my two dogs (85 lbs & 45 lbs) and some grandkids from time to time.  My biggest question is if rake impacts high-speed maneuverability.  I've had two Goldwing rigs in the past and wasn't as comfortable at 75-85 mph with the sidecar rig as I am on two wheels.  If that's the way it is, regardless of rake, then so be it.  Just asking the question as I begin a new search.

Mike @bannerguy, for  us.....you leave  far too much information  out of your posts.

Please..... give specific  details  of exactly  and precisely  what  year, make, model of  bikes you had attached to  previous  sidecars,  and exactly  and precisely  what brand and  model of  sidecars you have  had.

The shortest answer to  your question is....yes....reducing the  trail on the  front end of most motorcycles will greatly  improve the  handling and  steering of  most motorcycle  sidecar  rigs. There are a  short list of motorcycles that do not need to  have the  trail reduced, when adding a  sidecar to the  motorcycle. 

But, generally (and WE....don't like to talk in generalities)....it is highly  advisable to  reduce the  trail  on the  motorcycle,  so the handling and steering is  easier and  lighter.

Example: On my 2006 Honda Goldwing  1800, and on my wife's  former  2008 Honda Goldwing 1800, I  personally  installed  trail reducing  triple trees on both  motorcycles,  so that  when sidecars  were attached,  they  steered easier. 

On my current  2015 Goldwing 1800, with a Hannigan  GTL  sidecar, I  bought  this  as a completed  package  from  Hannigan,  and it has the  trail reducing  triple  trees on it, installed  by Hannigan. 

On my current  2019 Honda Goldwing 1800 w/DCT transmission,  and Hannigan  Dream  Sidecar,  it has a  completely different  front end than what you are  familiar with....it's  a Hassock front fork, and Hannigan  reduced the  trail by adding  5.25 degrees  of rake to the  Hassock fork.

It's not a matter of  "raking " the front forks, like we did in the '60s and  '70s, it's  slightly more  technical than that,  and whilst it  appears to the  layman that it  may be the  same,  it reduces the  trail....moves the front axle forward (example) 2" to 2.5"

If you are  considering  a Honda Goldwing 1800, there are big differences between  2001 - 2005.....and the  2006 - 2010.....and the  2012 - 2017....and the  2018 - 2025.

If you are  considering a Hannigan  sidecar,  there are big differences in the  models,  and sub-models.

We ARE here to  help....so just  ask....but be extremely  specific. 

Wackos like  me are even going to  ask you....what  are the  tires air pressures  set at ?

Currently looking at two different rigs - a 2013 F6B with a Hannigan Classic sidecar.  This rig is advertised as having a 6 degree rake.  The other is a 2003 with a Hannigan Bandido double wide that is also raked.

Mike @bannerguy, again....we need a LOT more info. I realize this is difficult for a newer person, but if you can provide us with exacting details, then we can help you better.

Example...I now have to search the Internet to find a listing, somewhere on planet Earth, for a 2003 Goldwing w/Hannigan Bandito for sale, so I can check it out.

"IF" it is the silver colored one that is listed on these forum pages, then just say so, and even post a link, rather than make us guess.

It would have been a LOT easier if you would have offered us the link.

On that 2013 Honda F6B w/Hannigan Classic sidecar, again...a LINK ?  What COLOR is the 2016 Honda F6B ? I ask, because I used to own a 2013 Honda F6B, and the Red ones had paint problems, as Honda mixed the clear topcoat in with the Red paint, before they sprayed the bikes, so the clear topcoat really didn't protect the Red color, and when you polished the bike, the Red color would come off and onto your polishing rags. The Black colored ones, like I had, were better, but they show a lot of scratches in the paint.

Let's cut this to the quick.....YES...the TRAIL reduced front end helps with steering and handling.

If you want us to offer info or advice on anything else, I will ask...for the last time...that you reach far outside your comfort zone, and give us info, so that we can help you. If we are going to have to search the Internet to find the bikes you are talking about, it is a waste of my time.

Are you talking about this one ?????

https://sidecar.com/forum/complete-rigs-for-sale/2003-goldwing-with-hannigan-bandido/#post-85187

So the two I am currently looking at are the one you mentioned above - the silver '03 Wing with the Bandito sidecar and this '13 Wing with the Classic sidecar. 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/451346150783310/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

Any thoughts on these two units would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Here's a link to Miles' build of his Battlewing Galactica on the "other" forum.  Highly detailed and expansive explanation of how and why with a 19 Wing with DCT.  https://advrider.com/f/threads/on-a-wing-and-a-dream.1584299/ . Well worth a look.  Also, here's his build thread on the Sidecar site: https://sidecar.com/forum/on-the-road-with/new-gen-3-dream-sidecar-by-hannigan/#post-10972.  

As for which way you should look, both seem to be worthy of consideration.

Posted by: @bannerguy

↑

So the two I am currently looking at are the one you mentioned above - the silver '03 Wing with the Bandito sidecar and this '13 Wing with the Classic sidecar. 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/451346150783310/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

Any thoughts on these two units would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Mike @bannerguy...here is my comparison of those two rigs you are looking at:

2013 Honda F6B:  In Mass....I see rusty connections at some of the sidecar mounts, 99% chance they are just surface rust, and can be cleaned up.

The Honda F6B does NOT have Reverse, but that is not a big deal, depending on YOUR physical abilities, as pushing these backwards is relatively easy, just be mindful of where you park. The Cobra 6 in 6 exhaust on the F6B is going to be LOUD...I know...and I am hard of hearing, so think about your two dogs, and your grandkids. The F6B is $ 2,000 more than the other rig. But, at least it does have the correct Front Tire on the F6B. But it does have almost twice the overall mileage than the other bike. In the world of Honda Goldwing 1800's, mileage is NOT a big deal, and for someone like me, I would prefer the 35k miles on it, vs the 20k on the other rig. That tells me it has been ridden more miles in 11 years, than the other bike has in 21 year.

The 2003 Honda Goldwing 1800, has Reverse, has self-cancelling turn signals, shows less rust on surfaces, but...it too is an East Coast bike, being in Florida, so LOOK for surface rust, and remove it. This bike has stock exhaust, so it will be quieter....dogs & grandkids. This Hannigan Bandito double is wider, so easier to carry both dogs, AND both grandkids, all at the same time, or...one dog, one grandkid, then the other dog, other grandkid (you get the idea)

The 2003 Goldwings did have a FRAME recall, and there is a 99% chance that this bike's frame has been addressed, but it is best to check, most especially since it is now tugging a sidecar alongside it. I could explain to you how to check if the recall has been done, but...its' a visual inspection for a few dimples they hammer into the area that was inspected and fixed, so you need to know where to look. Most likely any Honda dealer can check the VIN, and verify if that bike has had the frame recall performed. (I would NOT put a lot of weight into the decision making of which rig to buy, based on this frame recall)

This 2003 Wing, is painted Platinum color, and it last much longer, and easier to clean, and keep clean, than the Black Honda F6B.

The ad for the F6B says it comes with a "hard top"....yet it shows in the 3rd picture that it is a soft top convertible. That is a nice top, and usable on rainy days or cold days, but....also confines the passenger, whether the passengers bark or whine.

YOU, Mike, need to decide if Mass or Florida is worth going to to pick up this rig (because...We, The People have no idea of where you live) so let's say you live in Borneo, and that is a long distance from Borneo to the East Coast of the USA.

The 2013 bike is 10 years newer, but....has almost twice the mileage. The 2003 Wing is 10 years older, but half the mileage. Almost identical engine, transmission, and rear differential on both bikes. 

The 2003 Wing has an 1100 watt alternator, and the engine mapping was tuned for a marathon bike, long distance, higher overall top speed.

The 2013 F6B has a 1200 watt alternator (if I remember correctly) but it is still big enough to power a small city, BUT...and this is an important (at least to me), these Honda F6B engines were mapped to be more of a Sprinter....much quicker from 0 to 125 mph, just don't ask it to go 126 mph, as it will cut the fuel to 2 cylinders, and stumble at 126 mph.

REALITY.....you are going to spend ZERO time with this or any sidecar rig at speeds in excess of 120 mph.

Therefore, and Ergo, the F6B is engine mapped better for hauling a sidecar attached to it, than the Goldwing 1800 is, simply due to the added grunt at lower speeds.

Were it ME...I would lean towards the 2003 Goldwing with double Bandito, less mileage, less money, but gets reverse, and a few smaller items that are on the Goldwing 1800's that are not on the F6B's.

Personally, I think that BOTH bikes/sidecar rigs are overpriced. If it were me buying, I would offer $ 16k even for the 2003 Wing w/Bandito, and I would offer the exact same price, $ 16k for the F6B/Hannigan Classic.

Ironically...I have owned a brand new 2003 Wing, this same color, and owned a brand new 2013 Honda F6B, this same color..so I have direct experience with both bikes.

Ultimately it is your choice, feel out the sellers....Paul selling the 2003 Wing is known here, get a sense of which one feels right for YOUR needs and wants.

The "other" choice:

Thank you Miles for all the info - very helpful.  Also, you confirmed my suspicions that both were a bit overpriced.  I'm in the process now of reading about your build - I've got a 2023 non-tour DCT Wing in my garage and was thinking about simply adding a sidecar rig.  Reading about your build is making me wonder if I should simply add a sidecar to the Wing I already own...  Decisions, decisions, decisions...

Mike, I can tell you, without any reservations, that the Honda DCT tranny is the perfect transmission for sidecar use. I 100% love it. I have owned 4 Hondas with the DCT trans, and have never experienced a failure on any of them. As you can see in my built posts for my '19 Wing, it too is the non-Tour model. I added that Givi trunk to the back, which is removable, but it is nice to have a rear trunk for the smaller, or more immediate things you want to get to. If interested, I can send you the info on that specific Givi trunk, and in later pictures I have had the entire lid/top of that Givi trunk wrapped in Carbon Fiber looking wrap, so it protects it, and adds towards matching the bike.

If you go with adding a Hannigan sidecar to your '23 Goldwing, you are probably looking at a all-in and complete bill for $ 16k.

That is with your choice of sidecar, them building it, installing it, etc....all-n for $ 16k.

I would strongly (can't say that loudly enough) suggest that you do NOT get the Hannigan 180 front end like I got. It is too much tire and added materials up front. In hindsight I should have stayed with the stock WIDTH front end. They still "rake" it, or...reduce the trail, but the front steering will be much lighter and easier with the stock width, versus the 180 front end, so you can save almost $ 2k by NOT getting the 180 front end.

Sure, the 180 front end LOOKS cool as hell, but in the end, we need to be comfortable steering and handling the rig.

The Hannigan DREAM sidecar, which is what I got, is designed to replicate the rear end of the newest Goldwings, and having that side door really helps passengers get in, or out. BUT...with you hauling dogs or grandkids, not sure that is really necessary. The trunk is HUGE, and if you do get the Dream sidecar, or the Arrow Elite, or the Heritage, also get that front bumper, and rear bumper, and the hand rail that goes over the front section of the sidecar , like you see in the pictures of my '19 rig, as it makes for a great handrail to assist getting in or out.

Also, if you do decide on getting a Hannigan, or ANY other brand of sidecar, added to your '23 Wing, talk to me first about YOU doing the wiring on the Bike side of the equation, as I know where to get the Plug 'n Play wiring connections and harness, rather than having these bums at the sidecar companies tap into, or splice into, your OEM wiring harness. I have learned, the hard way, to NOT allow sidecar companies to ruin the OEM wiring on our bikes, as it is better to prep the motorcycle with Plug 'n Play wiring connectors and harnesses, so the sidecar company can just plug their sidecar wiring into your new harness.

Only one hominid on Earth does absolute perfection on motorcycle/sidecar wiring, and that is Mike Paull, in Poulsbo, Washington, at LBS-USA, and to date he will not do a Goldwing. He is a specialty shop, high priced, but worth every dollar spend to not have your wiring screwed up.

If you do have your '23 Wing done, I will walk you through the wiring, so it is all Plug 'n Play.

Hannigan Sidecars IS a good company to work with, I really like almost all the employees, they are straight forward, no BS, and they deliver a good/decent product. When I did it, I rode out to Kentucky in May 2022, met them all, placed my order.....then came back in early September 2022, spent 5 days in town, whilst they did all the attachment work (still had some finishing and painting to complete), then I drove it home 2,500 miles.

That is just to give you an idea of how things go there.

There is also TSC/DMC in Donie, Texas, so depending on where you live, oh...that's right, you are in Borneo, then you can decide which company offers the sidecar you would choose to add....BUT...still do the bike side wiring prior to handing the bike over to anyone.

Let's do the math.....$ 16k to buy one of the already completed sidecar rigs, and you still get to keep your '23 Wing as a 2 wheeler.

Or...$ 16k to add a sidecar to your '23 Wing....................hmmmmm...............

Thanks for the thoughts Miles (though they don't make this any easier!).  I will definitely keep you posted on my decision - it may take me a while to think this whole thing through, particularly because I still love two wheels, but also love piloting a sidecar rig!

I emailed the guy selling the '13 Wing asking if he still had the stock pipes.  This was his response: "The stock headers and cat's are still on the bike. I purchased the rig from the original owner who added black slip on's. Those slip on's have been replaced with Cobra six into six black exhaust pipes. The sound is still very quiet. Just like the stock sound. Thanks for your interest."  Thoughts on this?

And, by the way, I'm very close to Borneo - I'm in Baltimore, MD!

Mike

Aha.... Baltimore. You can almost spell Borneo from the letters in Baltimore. I spent 3 years in Baltimore, getting my MD from Johns Hopkins.

Originally from Cleveland, OH - been in Baltimore for almost 18 years...

As with all modern, electronically managed engines, making changes to any part of the system will usually require a re-mapping of the ECU so that it is happy and not throwing codes.  If the system works, is stable and makes pleasant noises that do not offend those in direct contact with the rig, go with it.

Since you might have multiple canine or small human passengers, I would lean to the Wing with the double wide Bandido.  As for adding a car to your current F6B, you can pay roughly the same dollars to buy a built rig - if it isn't to your liking, sell it along with no loss of investment.