Greetings. I'm scheduled to get a Hannigan Bandito attached to my 1150rt in mid-august. In the meantime and previously, I have been doing self-imposed classwork involving internet forums and the recommended book readings. In the solo motorcycle forums there are many citations of bike crashes ranging the entire gammut from simply dropping the bike to actual fatalities. The information presented is generally intended to make riders more aware of specific situations which did occur, either to themselves or to a friend or acquaintance. The intent is that this awareness will translate to a safer riding experience.
The sidecar forums and books/articles stress the potential of rear tire lift with the potential of an endover on a left turn and the potential of an overturn due to excessive chair lift on a right turn. My science background helps me to understand the mechanics and physics, which are at play in these scenarios. I am actually looking forward to mastering the riding techinques to handle such. However, I see frequent warnings of : you could pay the price, you can be killed, a flipover can come without warning on a left hand curve, you'd better not go in hot on a right hander or else, etc.
In this regard, I have searched sidecar forums for tipover(s), turnover(s), crash(s), flip(s), overturn(s), endover(s) and a couple more, that I can't recall right now. I have only found one link to a youtube video of a turnover crash by a couple of guys obviously pushing the limit, and a few others involving racing rigs. I have found no other mention/depiction of an actual sidecar crash. I think it would be helpful for my brain to link theoretical crash potential with actual accounts and/or situations involved in accidents/crashes. My interest is purely from an educational and accident prevention perspective, which I am sure is shared by others.
Therefore, if you were involved in, or are aware of an actual turn over type crash or have a link to such, I would appreciate hearing of it/them.
Regards
Even close calls would lend perspective, thx
My advice on crashing, --- don't.
...or at least don't admit it right? 🙂 You have quite the wit Phelonius...that's funny
offbalance - 7/20/2013 10:18 AM
...or at least don't admit it right? 🙂 You have quite the wit Phelonius...that's funny
Didn't say I hadn't crashed. I just said I don't advise it. Voice of experience here.
Years ago I made a life choice to attempt Not to judge people, but to seek their experiences, both good and not-so-good. I then try to apply the beneficial aspects of this knowledge to my own life experiences, in order to reduce my own trial and error. I've found that I have saved myself significant distress by heeding the advise and counsel of others, who have been willing to share their experiences both good and not-so-good. I think people actually learn better by hearing about or seeing a bad situation, due to the innate survival instinct....'whoa, I'd better be real careful of 'that' situation' - rather than just being told to be careful and read a book.
I agree offbalance. No point in reinventing the wheel. And everybody has something they can teach and even more they can learn...
Off balance you make some very good points. I also commend you for doing the research you have done. Sidecar ARE much more stable then a solo bike of course but they do have their quirks just like any other vehicle will have. A corvette and a CJ5 jeep are both 4 wheeled vehicles but of course will not and do not handle the same. Even though sidecar outfit exhibit the same basic traits one type of outfit will excel in one environment and another type in another. Safety is number one as far as outfit building goes but operator skill plays a big part into the final outcome. If you ever want to talk on these areas feel free to call. I am a much better talker than typist. 570 837 5120
First, You are doing the RIGHT Thing in investigating sidecar handling issues.
I learned 3 things from what I was able to "Preen" from other Hack Drivers;
1= there is NO CENTER OF BALANCE ON A MOTORCYCLE, SOLO OR SIDE CAR !! The center of balance is where the tire meets the pavement! This why you LEAN a solo bike in turns, and fight to keep a sidecar rig in a turn. Also the "End Over" & "Flying the Seat" are both results of the "Center of Balance" of the TIRES AT THE PAYMENT"
2= 17% of the motoring public ride motorcycles.....THE OTHER 83% ARE TRYING TO KILL US !!!!
3= My Dad's Proverb; A smart man burned his hand in the fire, the WISEMAN seen him do it!!
Good Luck !!
PS Don't tell your Life Insurance Company you ride motorcycles, Lie like hell, tell them you Smoke, Drink, and have unprotected Sex, you'll get better rates !! LOL
offbalance, I fortunately do not have any 3-wheel crash stories to tell. I do enjoy sidecars in part because they do not slide out from under you. I suggest taking a S/TEP course. The training will give you an good understanding of the dynamics of accelerating, turning & stopping sidecar rig. And let you, like me, make a few mistakes. And I've also made a couple of ugly mistakes in parking lot exercises -- but that's much better than on the road/in traffic.
Generally speaking, if you adhere to the posted speeds on the curves, you should have little difficulty driving the rig, even without techniques such as weight transfer, etc. As your skills improve with experience, you will find your, and your rigs, preferred traveling speeds.
Lee
MB5+TW200+CRF250L+GTV300+INT650
XL883R w/Texas Ranger Sidecar
Zuma 50F + Burgman w/Texas Sidecar<Mrs. SwampFox
just a note sidecar training and practice teaches the respect and balance of this one-sided beast.
remember passing more than one vehicle is not good they will turn left. experience is worth a thousand words/dollars.
I certainly thank you gentlemen for your comments, which are well taken. I tuened 62 today (not looking for well-wishes) and now qualify for Social Security - signed up a few weeks ago-, signed up for my America the Beautiful pass and this morning received David Hough's Second Edition Book....ah a nice day indeed!
I also will be changing engine and transmission oil in the beemer today in preperation for the sidecar...figured it would be easier now than when the car is attached. Not sure where to set the preload and shock tension, so I'm putting it mid-range and will let Hannigan know, in case they want to play with it after the car attachment. Also, they will be attaching a steer-lite front end, which I have no idea how or if it will affect the front suspension.
Boy, Mr. Hough's book is loaded with information and pics...I love pics. It seems that I've absorbed some knowledge just by holding the book hehheh
Well...Enjoy the Journey
Can't say I'm the voice of exsperience, Just got back into it myself, after many years away, this is now my third rig. Will just say this, I have had the hell scared out of me more than once, biggest thing, DON'T panic, and you most often will get out of trouble. I am 67 now, so I have slowed down a lot from younger days. Still maintain legal speeds, and I do pay a lot more attention to the speed warnings for curves, and I am most always OK. Give myself more space in traffic, at least as much as the fools in cages allow me. Will be embarking on a 3,000 mile trip in a couple of weeks, and going thru some major city traffic, so hope my added caution works.
No doubt in my mind you will do fine, and enjoy the new ride immensley.
As others have said, take a S/TEP course. Learn it correctly without too much trial and error. Back in the 70's I rode two different sidecar rigs, no prior training, for about five years. The first time I lifted the sidecar was on the road and it was not intentional or pretty. Ended up rolling the rig (was able to ride it home). Fast forward to four years ago when I decided to get into three wheels again. This time I took the S/TEP course first. Of course I am a lot older now, hopefully little wiser.
Every time I have had an accident or mishap, I believe I learn something and become more educated. Within the first week of riding with my sidecar, I clipped the fender against my own parked Jeep. Now I have a pretty good idea how far out that fender is. At least it was my own Jeep and not someone else's. It was just stupid. I should have known better and have been more aware. I hate learning things the hard way!
Jay S.
Okie from Muskogee
You fellas have given some examples of situations that, I'm sure, others have 'been there and done that' or at least had a close call. With each one I have gotten a mental picture of your warning or situation. This process hopefully will make me think ahead with potential expectations which could avert trouble. At least some of the pitfalls may be less shocking when they arise and I can better cope at that time. I think that it's good for anyone to get reminders periodically to 'tighten up their game'. Any other examples or comments are appreciated. I'm really looking forward to actually practicing on the rig. Years ago before I took my first solo bike MSF course, I set up my own parking lot practice course with soda can 'cones', similar to the course setups. Be Prepared, as the Boy Scouts say. There's a big parking lot near my home, where I plan to do the same. Not sure about the S/TEP class right now....they seem to be on the left and right coasts...I'm right in the middle. It would be great if they provided an internet video instructional training course, set up so a person could do the actual driving part on their own after each segment. A DVD would be great, with the instructors also demonstrating the driving drills. This way we could take the course whenever we felt the need, as a refresher/reminder.
Enjoy the Journey.
