I have been reading alot of posts from new guys(like me) and notice that there is a lot of talk about trail being a problem with alot of bikes. So my ? is, Are there any bikes that come stock with the right kind of trail that would work well with a hack or are all bikes set up were you would need to make changes? I was thinking sport bike, for it would seem that they would the least trail. Please let me know what you think.
Thanx Jason
welll unfortunatley trail cant be the same for bike and sidecar use and be ideal..
on a car its called "castor" - usually set at about 3/4 of one inch - expressed in bike terms that is
on a harley ultra its about 5.5 to 6"...
on a really twitchy, really hard to ride sport bike its probably +2.5" or so...
with a raked tree that lowers the trail on my harley it apears to be about 1.75" or less
so you either have to get the setting close enough, develop big arms, or change the trees - there really are no other answers - and the whole idea of only using a sidecar for the odd day here and there and riding the bike solo the rest of the time - well thats not really going to work very well. possibly 6 months on and 6 months off like some police departments do - on all winter and off all summer...
to
Jason,
The problem with a solo bike with stock trail is mainly steering effort required when a sidecar is attached.
Many sports bikes are hacked but almost all bikes can use some modification to enhance handling and comfort after a sidecar is installed.
A sports bike while having less steering effort usually has the disadvantage of being less comfortable after hours in the saddle than a Touring bike or Cruiser model. Another problem with many sports bikes is the need for high revs to attain the extra torque needed to handle the extra loading involved. A steering damper may be needed to control the nose wiggle. The handlebars should be wider than most sports bars for steering ease.
An ideal street driven sidehack rig should have a lot of low end torque for easy takeoff with having to feather the clutch to maintain a decent torque range. High rev horsepower is not a plus here. The fuel supply should also be adequate for the use intended.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
Ok then, what bikes do you guy think make the best for hacks?
Inline 4's, V-twins,etc
liguid or air/oil cooled
frame wise.
Maybe you guys can do a list of the to 10 or 20 bike in you own opinon.
Any liguid cooled / shaft drive, solid steel frame will be best. Any other will be good too.
Sidecar is fun.
I like the CB 750's and up I prefer inline 4's. My CB900F has 4" of trail and is not to bad,could be better with 2" less
Originally written by Blazinbikes on 10/24/2007 5:55 PM
Ok then, what bikes do you guy think make the best for hacks?
Inline 4's, V-twins,etc
liguid or air/oil cooled
frame wise.
Maybe you guys can do a list of the to 10 or 20 bike in you own opinon.
It depends on your riding style and where you ride. I've owned a number of combinations from old Triumphs to new Gold Wings and Harleys. I can truly say that the only combination that I really liked was my current one, a Valkyrie with a Ural car. But that's because I tend to spend a lot of time on the Interstate at highway speeds. It isn't a combination I would enjoy if I never got out of town, or if I was content going 50 mph down county roads. Tell us what kind of riding you envision yourself doing. Alone, or with a passenger? Highway, or back road?
one of my personal favorites is the BMW 1200 c bikes. not all that powerfull,but very easy steering in stock form and a relaxing gate with that motor. they make a great weekend touring rig.
Actually, I think you might be on the right track: Sportbikes and Dualsports often have less trail than cruisers and can be adapted to sidecar use, sometimes without modifying the front end.
Steering effort is subjective, but in general too little or too much trail results in an uncomfortable and dificult ride. In between is a fairly broad range that most people will find acceptable and can adapt to. You can always modify the steering later.
True, sportbikes often have narrow handlebars but that is usually not difficult or expensive to remedy. Not all sportbikes have extreme seating positions, and not everybody finds them uncomfortable. Personally, I find the cruiser style seating much less comfortable and the control and feedback of cruiser stlye bikes less precise. Give me a sportbike, dualsport or standard over a cruiser any day!
I prefer a bike with a full loop frame, it is easier to fit the sidecar to and doing so places less stress on the frame. With thought and effort you can certainly attach a hack to other types of frames.
Ultimately, it really comes down to what you like. Just like a solo bike, sit on it, test ride if you can and pick something that fits you and suits the type of riding you want to do. Aside from seat hieght issues, if you don't like it as a solo bike, you probably won't be happy with it as a sidecar rig.
For my money the Suzuki Bandit offers a lot of bang for the buck. A decent frame, good power, long production run, good prices for used low milage bikes, standard seating position. There are many other nice bikes out there that are suitable. For the money, a used japanese bike, built within the last ten years, making at least 60 hp would be where I would start looking. While shaft drive bikes have some advantages, chain drive allows you to easily adjust the gear ratio, which can go a long way towards making a sidecar rig a fun ride.
Thank you guy very much. That is some great info. I just picked up my hack and now will be looking for a bike. You guys have been very helpful. I will be doing a lot of around town riding. No big trips for me. I am not at a point in my life were I have time to take big trips. I just want to scoot around with my boys. So I think some thing that handles well at lower speeds is what I will be looking for. Please keep up the advise. I can see I came to the right place for it!
Thanx again
Jason
Good comments as usual have been presented here.
There is always a lot of talk about reducing trail to make steering easier through various systems. Facts are facts and reducing trail does make a rig easier to steer.
However, some folks are much more sensitive to what is called 'hard steering' than others. One guy will do just fine with the stock steering geometry and the next guy will say it feels like he is driving a truck with a bad power steering pump.
Until some seat time is acquired and the new sidecarist has gotten more comfortable on a rig most will be nervious and maybe be hanging on with a death grip for a while. A newbie also has not acquired the techniques to let the sidecar rig help with steering into corners and out of them with use of brakes and acceleration.
Nothing wrong with reducing trail but my point is that one may want to give it some time to see what he or she wants to do.
The nice thing about sidecaring is that one can upgrade as he or she goes. You do not have to have a long list of bells and whistles to get started in this sport.
I would bet that if one were to check at a large sidecar rally they woudl find more rigs with stock geometry than not.Could be wrong...maybe 🙂
I have ridden sidecars for over 20 years and had never actually owned one with modified front end geometry until a few years ago.
Heck some folks pay to go to the gym and workout, why not ride and get a little workout at the same time...a win win situation ...it might even make the steering easier if you exercise some muscles that are not usually used by building them up:-)
In relation to the original post:
I think the last out of factory bike that was produced with stearing prepaired for solo and rig was in the seventies the East German MZ ES250. One of the ugliest things I can remember. But in deed for such a little toy well done and reliable (for its time).(You can see a few fotos of it in the translation of the german sidecar manual in the link section.)
It had a pushed front swing with 2 axle positions, for solo and rig as 2 decades before the BMW R60. After that only sidecar specialist built front swings like that but no of the shelf factory. (perhaps some chinese or russian, but there I have no info about.)
Regards
Sven Peter Pan
Everybody's bike is probably the best. The olde Earles fork BMW came from the factory ready to go, but they're getting a bit pricey. Someone here was just talking about the Kawasaki W650, and I think that would be a good standard.
If steering feels really heavy, it easy to try wider bars.
This thread is great. I am learning alot. Please keep it coming. I was offered an bike tonight but I do not think it is what I am looking for, but I would like to here what you guys think of it. 1977 Honda GL1000.
Well I can tell you what works for me. I have a Honda Shadow 1100 with a Velorex 565. From where I live it is ½ an hour to get out of the city on a good day. So I in the low 4 gears most of the time but I do hit the interstate at times. I love the back road 55 to 65 MPH. I like the Honda because I don’t spend time working on it and did not need a sub-frame. I ride almost everyday and put about 12 k on it the 1st year.
