Advice for new rig rider.

Ride your rig a few times with some ballast in the sidecar before risking a passenger. Get used to how it handles so you will have fewer surprises. It is okay for the bike to lean out from the sidecar slightly. Only a little though, too much could be a problem. Under 30mph your rig may have front end shake, do you have a steering damper? raked triple trees? Your sidecar will always pull a slight bit one way, too much suggests it may need to be adjusted. Google "sidecar toe in" you can find some diagrams for correct angles and such. If you drive in first gear to say 15 mph then neutral then for a second take your hands off the bars what happens? If you can get it to track reasonably straight when doing this you are okay. Are you using universal mounts or a subframe on the bike? What kind of wear do you see on the tires? Post some more pictures! Good luck and just practice. Remember you need to think farther ahead with a sidecar, it is heavier and requires a greater braking distance.

With a sidehack rig one should NEVER ride hands off. A small bump or dip can cause an instant tank slapper.
For checking neutral steering, grasp the bars lightly and you will know if it is pulling one way or the other.
You are looking for neutral tracking at a steady speed on the roads you travel most with the load most carried. This is a compromise setting unless you have a tilt system that can compensate for road camber and different loading.
Some leanout is needed usually somewhere between 1 and 3 degrees (loaded rig). This is to overcome road crown and to keep the rig from pulling to the right (US).
A minor amount of nose wiggle is normal with some rigs. One will get used to that as well as the left lean after logging some miles on the rig.
Before installing a steering damper, try tightening the neck bearings so the front end doesn't just flop from side to side. Often this will decrease or eliminate the low speed nose wiggle.

Lonnie

nyarltep - 8/12/2011 10:44 AM

Ride your rig a few times with some ballast in the sidecar before risking a passenger. Get used to how it handles so you will have fewer surprises. It is okay for the bike to lean out from the sidecar slightly. Only a little though, too much could be a problem. Under 30mph your rig may have front end shake, do you have a steering damper? raked triple trees? Your sidecar will always pull a slight bit one way, too much suggests it may need to be adjusted. Google "sidecar toe in" you can find some diagrams for correct angles and such. If you drive in first gear to say 15 mph then neutral then for a second take your hands off the bars what happens? If you can get it to track reasonably straight when doing this you are okay. Are you using universal mounts or a subframe on the bike? What kind of wear do you see on the tires? Post some more pictures! Good luck and just practice. Remember you need to think farther ahead with a sidecar, it is heavier and requires a greater braking distance.

Ballast is a good idea - I'll set a bag or two of feed in there.
As far as I know, it does not have a steering damper.
Google "sidecar toe in" -- so many sites -- feel like I'm back in school - lol.
I'll check the pull at various speeds to see what I get -- also will check the tires for wear pattern.

Thanks!

Hack'n - 8/12/2011 11:09 AM

With a sidehack rig one should NEVER ride hands off. A small bump or dip can cause an instant tank slapper.
For checking neutral steering, grasp the bars lightly and you will know if it is pulling one way or the other.
You are looking for neutral tracking at a steady speed on the roads you travel most with the load most carried. This is a compromise setting unless you have a tilt system that can compensate for road camber and different loading.
Some leanout is needed usually somewhere between 1 and 3 degrees (loaded rig). This is to overcome road crown and to keep the rig from pulling to the right (US).
A minor amount of nose wiggle is normal with some rigs. One will get used to that as well as the left lean after logging some miles on the rig.
Before installing a steering damper, try tightening the neck bearings so the front end doesn't just flop from side to side. Often this will decrease or eliminate the low speed nose wiggle.

Lonnie

"For checking neutral steering, grasp the bars lightly and you will know if it is pulling one way or the other." - first I'll have to find a level road -- not so easy to do in the mountains where I live. Plus the ones that are level are usually very rough. Gee - I may have to take a loooonnnggg ride just to find the right roads to check everything out (Sorry honey, I have to do this...I'll be back in a day or two...) ROFL.

Let's see: roads most traveled speed will average 45mph, load will be (usually) just the car, briefcase, lunch 🙂 The idea is to make it steady and stable at this setup and then the rest will just be me adjusting as needed?

Leanout of 1-3 degrees loaded rig -- does loaded mean as I will most often travel? Or truly loaded with a rider behind me and a passenger in the car?

I'll have a mechanic-type friend look into tightening the neck bearings...

Thanks much! I really appreciate the input...

RWHH.

Hack'n - 8/12/2011 1:09 PM

With a sidehack rig one should NEVER ride hands off. A small bump or dip can cause an instant tank slapper.
For checking neutral steering, grasp the bars lightly and you will know if it is pulling one way or the other.
You are looking for neutral tracking at a steady speed on the roads you travel most with the load most carried. This is a compromise setting unless you have a tilt system that can compensate for road camber and different loading.
Some leanout is needed usually somewhere between 1 and 3 degrees (loaded rig). This is to overcome road crown and to keep the rig from pulling to the right (US).
A minor amount of nose wiggle is normal with some rigs. One will get used to that as well as the left lean after logging some miles on the rig.
Before installing a steering damper, try tightening the neck bearings so the front end doesn't just flop from side to side. Often this will decrease or eliminate the low speed nose wiggle.

Lonnie

Never is a long time. I have a perfectly flat and smooth. long driveway outside of my house. I can get the bike up to 15 mph. go neutral and let my hands go off the bars briefly with no issues. A slight pull to the left but nothing drastic and no shake. There is nothing dangerous about this and it helps to fine tune my adjustments. Someone could do the same thing in a empty parking lot. I have recovered from plenty tank slaps. Those were mostly on a bumpy downhill.

I've been reading the older threads on ballast. Sounds like a good idea. But I'm confused as to the amount.

The 1/3 of gross vehicle weight (GVW) seems like a reasonable number to aim at -- but what is the GVW really?

Motorcycle (MC): 725 lbs.
Sidecar (SC): 190 lbs.
Rider (ME): 220 lbs (+).

MC and SC weights taken from online specs - they may be actually heavier since the MC has hardbags and other accessories and the SC is a 1999 model and all I could find the weight for is the current year model. But for my ballpark calculations, they should be sufficient.

Ballast calculation = W - weight of sidecar.

A> Weight MC + SC + ME = 1135 lbs. 1/3 = 378.33 lbs. Ballast = 188.33 lbs Weight MC + SC = 915 lbs. 1/3 = 305 lbs. Ballast = 115 lbs.
C> Weight MC only = 725. 1/3 = 241.66 lbs. Ballast = 51.66 lbs.
D> Weight MC + ME = 945 lbs. 1/3 = 315 lbs. Ballast = 125 lbs.

Assuming of course that you subscribe to the 1/3 theory, which is the right figure for GVW and thus for Ballast?

Try the B figure.
A good test is to turn the bars to the right. Step onto the left peg/footboard holding the grips and pull away from the bike to the left. If the sidecar doesn't fly up easily you have adequate sidecar weight.

L.

Hack'n - 8/12/2011 8:59 PM

Try the B figure.
A good test is to turn the bars to the right. Step onto the left peg/footboard holding the grips and pull away from the bike to the left. If the sidecar doesn't fly up easily you have adequate sidecar weight.

L.

Thanks! Ill give it a try.

you can ck set up by makeing stright line on garge floor for the bike tires to center on then another for the hack wheel .the lead for side car axle in ratio to bike rear axle should be 121/2 to 15 inches &when extending the side car wheel line forward the toe in (difference ) in distance between lines should be 1/8 to 1/4 i prefer 1/8 .nowyour camber setting (lean )should be in enough so as when you get on bike it is straight (some like a little in "neg")when you get on the supension compresses .now if your going to normally carry passenger add their weight when makeing these adjustments.so when your going down road your leavel. remember the more forward the side car wheel the more stable but harder to turn &the more back gives more trike effect (less stable). these settings need to be worked with as you ride &get comfortable with the rig & if you don`t have passenger sometimes keep some sand bags to replace her . also watch for your tire ware to much toe in will wear out side car tire as well as rearon bike .not everybody sets up the same but your the rider get it where you are comfortable &safe