Is it okay to ride 2 on the bike with a passenger in the sidecar? I would think that it would be alright as long as the bike-mounted passenger knows the proper method of riding with the hack (as of this typing, I haven't got a clue as to what exactly one would do in a turning situation).
It's been done for years with a heavier passenger in the car.
The bike passenger should stay alert and lean to keep balanced.
lonnie
First- i think it's very dangerous, but there are varying opinions on that.
Sometimes a passenger will attempt to "help" by leaning back and forth in the SC. I don't notice anything. I can't imagine I would notice anything from the rear of the bike, either, unless they were doing something in the realm of gymnastics. Like a racing monkey.
I think it might be OK if A) the passenger in the SC is heavier, and B) the driver has enough experience to know how to handle unexpected situations. (It would be even better if the driver was experienced enough to avoid unexpected situations.)
Although you seem to have a bench seat, and that is probably what you are addressing, some of the same experiences may apply with a two-up seat as well as a pillion seat. I'll just add a few comments from my personal experience with my Troyka and the pillion seat used on it. Knowing how to properly set the load is a major thing with the pillion seat in use or even a bench seat. In other words, a small child would go to the pillion or bench seat, and the larger adult would be in the hack. If adults are on the rig, then the heavier one goes to the sidecar. Now, informing the pillion rider as to what to do and what to expect will save your behiney a lot of woe, as they may have a tendency to swing the opposite way. A child on the rear pillion seat is a total worry for me, as they only have the grab ring or my waist to hold onto when in motion. It is easy enough to have an adult who is unfamiliar with how to correctly ride on a pillion seat lose their grip when in a sharp turn or such. Small kids are more prone to this, and my Troyka doesn't have a sissy bar to keep them balanced or in place. Too easy to have to concentrate on them and not on the road in my opinion. I try to opt out of having to ride so many if I can. It ain't always as easy as knowing what to do in a dangerous situation, as knowing how to keep away from the dangerous situation is a better key for sure. Not all dangerous situations allow for pre-planning to a degree. I can't tell you how often I have made a turn, only to find someone driving on the wrong side of the road or some kid pushing a lawn mower right out in the middle of my lane as I turn a corner. Nighborhoods can present their own problems with safety and having dangerous situations occur unexpectedly.
I like my pillion seat for the looks, but I frequently find that if it is not used routinely, I have to sort of re-remember that there is a significant difference in the handling of my rig when someone is back there. I think your bench seat would be the same. It doesn't take me long to re-adjust my thinking on what I am doing though, but I prefer to limit how often I let someone ride on the pillion seat. It ain't that I ain't skilled as a pilot, it is just that I don't have enough hairs left on my noggin to keep losing them when I don't need to. Therefore, I really limit just how often I get into a situation where I want to put someone onto the pillion seat in the first place.
I rode around the neighborhood with a small child and adult a few days back. I was amazed at myself in just how slow I was going at every turn, but the inexperienced pillion seat rider kept my mind in a state of worry. In heavy traffic, I'd have been a good target for making a mistake that could be costly because of my choice to allow so many passengers when I really didn't have to. It isn't that someone else can't do it very, very effectively and may feel I am "full of it" for suggesting to someone else to not do it as the norm. (I am not suggesting to not do it, but I am saying that I don't encourage it). I don't consider myself or my passengers as (safe) when we decide to do that. I just try not to allow myself to get into the habit of encouraging others to hop on the pillion seat and into the hack if I don't have to. If I do have to go that route, then I try to plan things to keep to the neighborhood where I feel a bit safer in riding, than on the superslab or in busy traffic. I also take the time to educate the person on the pillion seat and in the hack as to what I expect them to do to make it all work well for us.
Folks have been doing it since the begining of bench seats and pillion seats, but I suspect they have done more towards gaining the knowledge of how to adapt to the differences it all makes. Maybe I'll get a bit more comfortable with it in the future, but at least for now, I enjoy not being that skilled. For after all, it gives me better gas mileage and tread life when the passenger load is reduced. 🙂
Huey
Originally written by eggroll on 7/30/2007 12:25 AM
Is it okay to ride 2 on the bike with a passenger in the sidecar? I would think that it would be alright as long as the bike-mounted passenger knows the proper method of riding with the hack (as of this typing, I haven't got a clue as to what exactly one would do in a turning situation).
dont do it!
keep in mind that a passenger on the back can be tossed off in a quick swerve, left or right.
the bike does not lean any more. any turns will make the passenger lean out to the left [on right turns]or right [on left turns] if he/she, knows ahead of time, it will help, but many times[90%] the passenger will be gazing at the beautiful scenery, kid in the SC, waving to passers by...whatever, and you need to make a quick right[or left] manuever to avoid an obstacle ahead.if that passenger is not paying attention they will be very much leaned out to the left,[on a right turn] hanging on for dear life [best scenario], making the bike badly out of balance with the extra weight shift to the outside. the SC rig can then become instantly out of control and enter oncoming traffic. Or, the passenger can be completely thrown off.
It has been done by many, but I shudder, and shake my head when Isee a rig with a passenger on the pillion. ask my wife .also.
when I got my first rig, she also climbed on the back seat.
that lasted about 3 miles, and several turns. she motioned me to pull over, and we both agreed, and climbed into the SC..Ahhhhhhh! was much safer there!since then she has never ridden on the pillion, and is also an advocate of the 'no pillion passenger' crowd.
It is no different than carrying a passenger on a trike, an ATV, a golf cart, or a snowmobile. As long as the rig is properly balanced AND the passenger is aware of his/her surroundings at all times it is fine. In 40 plus years of riding, I have not been able to find one verifiable instance of a passenger falling off of a sidecar rig in which either a jack rabbit start or alchohol impairment wasn't involved.
On the other hand, the last time we had this discussion, a simpe Google search brought up 5 or 6 people in the previous 60 days who were either injured or killed by falling off of a 2 wheeler accelerating in traffic or swerving to avoid an obstacle. In each case the bike did not tip, the passenger simply fell off. The key is that no one should be on a motorcycle of any kind if they are not able to pay attention to their surroundings.
As I've said before, my view on this will change when someone shows me that it actually happens or when the sidecar/trike/snowmobile/ATV/golfcart/etc. industry starts issuing commercials and ads advising against passengers. They design and sell sidecars and market them to allow you to take the family along. They are also the ones who will be sued if this actually ever happened.
As long as you balance your load and ride responsibly you will be fine.
2 real dangerous situations (20 and 1 year ago) with 3 persons and on the bike made me just reduce my personell limit to 2 persons.
Find a good monkey is rare. (1.1.07 we were having fun)
The few times you ride with 3 on the bike take your time to instruct the back seat rider. But anyhow, don't trust the guy on the back >>> slow down as Huey said!
3 peron riding is for sunday morning beach promanade not more. The engine will apreciate the limitation.
Sven Peter Pan
Unk said: (It would be even better if the driver was experienced enough to avoid unexpected situations.)
Now that takes some experience! lol
The leaning I mentioned for the rear seat passenger ("Bitch", in some circles) was centripedal, to keep from falling sideways in a turn from centrifugal force. This can happen to an unattentive (or sleeping) passenger.
In the last two World wars 3 passenger sidecar rigs were plentiful. Some also carried a machine gunner in the boat. These were used on and off road.
Lonnie
Well- you know what I mean. When I was a kid and I got new jeans and sneakers, I had to go "test" them by running through bushes and stuff. I suspect that sometimes people like to test their rigs by doing things they couldn't get away with on 2 wheels.
Also, I suspect that newer drivers don't see things the same as someone with more miles on the clock. They aren't as prepared to know when to slow down more, or whatever. I'm still thinking about the people who died here a couple of years ago with their wives riding pillion. One guy went into the woods, and the other over-compensated and the 3rd wheel went up. They drifted into a guard rail.
Just my 2 cents. You'll never know what you can get away with until you try. (Ask any teenager.)
I also read a similar news report, about 2 yrs ago here on one of these forums, about the 2 rigs with wives on the pillion, losing control on a right hand curve, and the wives slid off into oncoming traffic..the rigs continued, drifting across the hy, and hit a truck head on. I cannot find the documentation for this event, but read it here.
Each time this comes up I hear about those people who ran across the road. The first time it was discussed was in June of 2003 shortly after we set up this site. At that time it happened "5 or 6 years ago", but no one was able to narrow it down to what really happened. Was the accident caused by someone falling off of the passenger seat of a moving sidecar rig? How did it happen? Was there adequate weight in the sidecar at the time? Was there alchohol involved? Who did it happen to? In what community did it happen?
I'm not trying to start a fight, I really do want to know. Last July (2006) this subject came up again. I went so far as to contact Motorvation, Hannigan, California, and Dauntless. I spoke to Doug Bingham about it last September in Iowa as well. Not one of them could tell me they ever even heard of it happening, ever!
Each time I ask these questions, the subject either changes or it gets dropped until the next time someone wants to take his family along. And each time I've searched through our messages I find references to an accident that somebody thinks they heard about, followed by someone asking for details, and then dead silence.
Urban Legends abound and are as always alive and well.
Without documentation, I (and most others) treat them as just that.
A lot of people "know a guy who knew a guy who had a cousin, an uncle, a buddy, who "et cetera'd". And it's presented as fact.
You know: "The hitchhiker", "The guy who chained up the town cops car rear end", "The pillion passenger who flew off in a turn causing the rig to go head on into and under a semi".
Without proper documentation let's leave the horror stories for the summer night campfire.
Lonnie
urban legends can go just the opposite also..... IE...
'We've gone miles and miles two up without a mishap!!"
dont mean S***...please dont encourage new riders to practice unsafe riding techniques..
It has many times been stated by many of the SC gurus here that it is an unsafe practice..leave it at that.
some riders ride without helmets, shorts and sneakers, ETC ...."Ive never had an accident yet!"
dont meant it is a safe way to ride.
That's like saying "If I wear a helmet my head might explode, so I better not wear a helmet". Never mind that no one can show that it actually happened, just stop wearing helmets because someone thinks it might.
In case anyone is wondering where that came from, I was once told by an anti-helmet crusader that in the Southwest, in summer, the police will pull you over and tell you not to wear a helmet because your head could explode from the heat. I asked him to document that fact as well. He never got back to me.
