I have been dealing with a issue on my HD Road King and Liberty SC this summer that just seems to keep on.
The car has it's own directional lights plus the rear brake light also acts as a directional. I also have a headlight modulator (flasher installed)
Sometimes the directional signal on the left side would flash 4 times regular...then 4 times fast then cancel. The right would flash at the regular rate then cancel after 8 flashes. This did not happen all the time. If I put my directionals on late they would often respond correctly cancelling after the turn. If am stopped and then put them on they will also sometimes respond correctly but often the left signal will flash 4 slow 4 fast and then continue fast until I turn.
I read that the Badlands load equalizer lll would take care of problems like this so I ordered one and installed it according to directions. It worked for one time and then went back to the previous cycle of 4 long 4 short and cancel...I called the Badlands Company tech support and was told to disable the right rear directional on the bike. I was good with that because I always felt it might be confusing to cars behind to have both a directional on the bike and hack. No help.... So I ground off the terminal on the bike's right front directional bulb so only the running light would work. Now the right light is going 4 long 4 short and canceling. Man this is getting irritating and I also think it is dangerous not to have the directionals go for more than 8 cycles before they cancel.
I have also pulled the main fuses more times than I can count to reset the computer modules.
Other than doing hand signals does anyone have any suggestions on where to go from here.
If your brake light is flashing with the turn signal I would suspect a bad ground. I'm not too familiar with liberty sidecars, do they have a brake light on the car?.
Anyway ensure the ground for the sidecar is good. If necessary, remove the sidecar from the wiring (like it wasn't there, just the bike the way it was originally) and see what happens.
I have a 2004 Ultra Classic, with the TLE sidecar, other than just plugging in the sidecar harness, the bulb for the right signal is removed, (otherwise it will flash fast), and everything works fine.
OK, OK!
We got it the first 4 times.
Lonnie
(time to delete)
When I submitted a reply this morning I kept getting an error message. (some admin thing). Believe me I didn't want to annoy anyone. LOL
That happens often when posting pix also.
Now I go to last logon and see whether they really got posted before reposting stuff.
Lonnie
Yes, my Liberty has a separate turn and brake light. both flash when turning. In checking this all out further I found that:
The front directional on the hack also goes on when applying the brake. So if I am simply pumping my brakes it looks as though I am turning right. NOT GOOD!!
If I put on the 4 way emergency flashers the passing light on the hack flashes but not the directional....Mmmmmm
This is getting really strange. I liked not having computers regulating such things much better and electrical issues always have driven me slightly crazy, but this is really strange.
I bought the bike used and did not notice these issues before installing the headlight modularor....but that doesn't mean they were not there...as I had stars in my eyes for about 4 months.
Originally written by scrinch on 7/22/2009 3:37 PM
I have been dealing with a issue on my HD Road King and Liberty SC this summer that just seems to keep on.
The car has it's own directional lights plus the rear brake light also acts as a directional. I also have a headlight modulator (flasher installed)
Sometimes the directional signal on the left side would flash 4 times regular...then 4 times fast then cancel. The right would flash at the regular rate then cancel after 8 flashes. This did not happen all the time. If I put my directionals on late they would often respond correctly cancelling after the turn. If am stopped and then put them on they will also sometimes respond correctly but often the left signal will flash 4 slow 4 fast and then continue fast until I turn.
I read that the Badlands load equalizer lll would take care of problems like this so I ordered one and installed it according to directions. It worked for one time and then went back to the previous cycle of 4 long 4 short and cancel...I called the Badlands Company tech support and was told to disable the right rear directional on the bike. I was good with that because I always felt it might be confusing to cars behind to have both a directional on the bike and hack. No help.... So I ground off the terminal on the bike's right front directional bulb so only the running light would work. Now the right light is going 4 long 4 short and canceling. Man this is getting irritating and I also think it is dangerous not to have the directionals go for more than 8 cycles before they cancel.
I have also pulled the main fuses more times than I can count to reset the computer modules.
Other than doing hand signals does anyone have any suggestions on where to go from here.
The directional lights in the late model Harley-Davidsons are controlled by the TSSM (Tunr Signal Security Module). This unit senses the load (primarily through resistance to ground) of the lighting circuits. One benefit of this is that it will malfunction when a bulb burns out until the bulb is replaced.
For example, when adding a TLE sidecar to an HD, it's usually necessary to remove the right-side stop and turn signal bulb since the one in the sidecar substitutes. The older manuals mentioned this, although for some reason, they failed to contnue this note into the later books.
Besides avoiding confustion to following drivers, another reason for removing the bike's right-side tail light bulb is to maintain the original resistance load provided by two front turn signal bulbs and two rear stop and turn signal bulbs. The same issue can come up in a car where the signals blink at a faster rate when a bulb is burned out.
So my guess is that with your sidecar and whatever modules you have added, the TSSM senses a difference and has reacted to the improper load.
There is another possible cause of the change in blinking, one that occurred in my 2004 Ultra when I added a different set of grips. I had to remove the left control module from the handlebars. In so doing, I apparently caused two wires to rub together and touch through cuts in the insulation. I call this problem a "signal short". That is, the wires are not shorted to ground (crowbar short) but rather are shorting to one another, causing improper resistance in the circuit which in turn (to make a pun) is sensed by the TSSM.
In my case, I was getting the four normal blinks followed by fast blinking until the turn signal shut off. I was tearing out what hairs I had remaining until I finally, reluctantly, went to the dealer and paid them for an hour of time to find the problem. ($95.00!). They have all of the electrical diagnostic equipment to handle a job like that so it was money well spent for me. They used their Digital Technician (diagnostic laptop) to read the TSSM outputs as well as a breakout box to enter the circuit through the cable connectors when they are opened up. At the same time, I had them toggle my Rollover add-on switch to sidecar usage so that the
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
I have a pretty good head of hair still, but it is painful pulling it out on such a continual basis.
I pulled the bulbs from the right bike directionals and that is when the problem migrated to the right directional. I had thought the Badlands load equalizer was supposed to take care of unequal loads so that is why I laid down $70.00. I will try disconnecting that and work backwards as you suggest.
My local Harley dealership is a joke...I took my bike for service and got it back with the drive belt way loose.....also they will not touch anything that does not have HD on it....my side car is a Liberty
Originally written by scrinch on 7/26/2009 4:30 AM
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
I have a pretty good head of hair still, but it is painful pulling it out on such a continual basis.
I pulled the bulbs from the right bike directionals and that is when the problem migrated to the right directional. I had thought the Badlands load equalizer was supposed to take care of unequal loads so that is why I laid down $70.00. I will try disconnecting that and work backwards as you suggest.
My local Harley dealership is a joke...I took my bike for service and got it back with the drive belt way loose.....also they will not touch anything that does not have HD on it....my side car is a Liberty
Good. If you just work from the starting point - four bulbs, two up front and two in the rear and then get a proper signal you will have eliminated the TSSM as a problem. Then the whole issue will be finding that combination of resistances that will satisfy the TSSM.
Your complaint about Harley-Davidson's service issues is not an uncommon one. First, they either don't like sidecars or can't understand them since they won't willingly do anything to them. They make a nice sidecar but then they hide that fact and fail to train anyone on selling or servicing them. They don't even advertise them anymore. It's a joke, as you say.
Sidecars are harley-Davidson's best kept secret. When I purchased my present one, the deal was it would come in in a crate and if they so much as removed a staple from the crate I could refuse to accept it and I could get a refund. When it arrived at the shop, we did open the side of the crate to take inventory and assess for possible damage (there was none) but that was done under my supervision. I didn't want them so much as touching it. I do all my own work but I had to laucgh when I asked for a quote to have them install it. They wanted 8 hours at $95 per hour!
I don't know what's going to happen now that they have brought out a line of trikes in conjunction with Lehman. Hopefully they will work on those.
I'm sorry, I don;t know anything about the Badlands equalizer. I've heard of them but unless it is balanced to the needs of the TSSM, it's destined for failure.
I am aware of some folks having isolated extra lighting systems from the stock harness and TSSM using relays with separate circuits. I haven't explored anything like that for lighting yet since I haven't added any. The ultra has enough lights on the rear around the Tour Pak to suit me.
I do have air horns with two trumpets under the left saddlebag that has its own separate circuit with a 10 gauge wire feeding a relay. That is one loud set of horns!
Good luck.
