John
There has been alot written about the use of steel belted car tires on sidecars on this site and SCT site.
Here are some fundamental advantages on why some convert to a car tire.
1) wider/flatter tire surface offers more direct contact with the road.
2) composition of the steel belted radials hold the road extremely well.
3) longevity---you can get 20,000 miles on a steel belted radial vs 3-8000 on a motorcycle tire.
4)Cost-- You can find a steel belted radial for sidecar use as low as $40!!
5)My rig has been designed where all the tires are interchangeable! On a long trip I can carry a spare and do not have to worry which tire may go flat!!!!!!
6)If you do get a flat and don't have a spare(esp in a rural area)you can find a car tire much easier than a specific motorcycle tire.
7) most shops/tire stores can easily change and balance your new tire since its on a car rim.
Not everyone can do this with there rig, but you gotta admit its a neat concept that makes sense and increases safety/function & is cost effective in the long run. Also a great selling feature if you ever go to sell your rig.
And if you want coarser tread grooving irons are still available for less than 100 bucks. Don't tule out studed tires either..where legal of course.
John check out this web site ......
Ara. twin twin and Danny this will give you some insight on what they are doing in germany, france and england. Its in german but the photos and the design concepts is whats important.... Enjoy
http://www.stern-gespannservice.de/galerie/
Lots to see there... thanks for the link...
Might have my torsion bar on sometime in a few days and as I know now how the rig handles will be able to write the differences as I am very sensitive to handling!
Has been a blast so far... just wish that people on the road would keep an eye on their driving instead of glancing over and being all over the road... or even the other night being blinded by a flashlight from inside a car passing by slowly! As... Twintwin said... are we the "red elephant"???
Be well... Ara
This is the first day with the torsion bar... have not had time to upload pictures yet... but Claude IS A GENIUS! WOW... I have now a sports car it seems... amzing difference... I cannot even begin to describe the positive differences...
We had a great time also... and as soon as I can I will post the pictures... all I can say is that it should be standard on ALL cars!!!
Be well... will get back soon... work is creeping up on me...
Ara
Originally written by Beemerchef on 4/12/2006 8:45 PM
(Snipped)
We had a great time also... and as soon as I can I will post the pictures...**********************
WELL! We're dying of curiosity here!!
Sarge
I second the motion on Sarges request for some photos!!!!!!!!
Originally written by sidecarLenny on 4/15/2006 6:30 PM
I second the motion on Sarges request for some photos!!!!!!!!
Ah! Work... even four days a week has a way of intruding on hobbies!
Here are the pictures I took last weekend... I wish I would have taken more! As you can see "Duck" from Cleveland (GA) joined us also for a bit... nice nice rig he has by the way.
As I ride a 200 mile commute every day I still have a smile on my face and I think will for ever! I even leave early now to attack some of the GA Mountains... from no torsion bar to torsion bar I feel like I have now a "sports car"!!!... Claude has done such an incredible job...
Enjoy the 2 pages...
http://beemerchef.smugmug.com/gallery/1364879
Be well... Ara
Any opinions on the impact/added value of a sway bar vs. a leading link to the overall handling characteristics of the bike/sidecar rig? Or are we talking apples and oranges?
BTW, nice pics beemercchef.
Mike
Definitely apples and oranges.
A leading link, or Earles fork front end is meant to correct the geometry of the front end of a motorcycle with a sideload in the form of the sidecar. The trail characteristics of the average solo motorcycle, with 4-5" of trail, is designed to make the motorcycle inherently stable as a solo, single-track vehicle. Without an amount of trail such as this, the front end would not have it's self-centering characteristics that they do - in essence, you'd be in permanent tank-slapper mode, as the front end seeks a level of stability that is no longer inherent in the design. Without trail, you wouldn't be able to lean into a corner without the front end instantaniously tucking.
When you put a sidecar on it, you've taken away the motorcycles inherent need for the front end to be self-centering. A rig with stock trail, tends to steer heavy, as it has been put, "like a mack truck with shot power steering" .. reducing the trail with a properly designed LL to ideal geometry, imparts those power steering characteristics. Take the sidecar off, and try to ride the leading link setup solo, and you'll find that it is basically unrideable - the motorcycle will be unstable.
Swaybars serve an an entirely different purpose. It's purpose is to equalise, and distribute suspension loads between the motorcycle and sidecar. If you hit a pothole, or road bump with the motorcycle rear tire, the swaybar will transmit some of that force to the sidecar wheel to help compensate and correspondingly compress the sidecar wheel. It also acts to a certain extent like a torsion bar as an addition to your suspension - it stiffens things up to a certain degree. With cornering, it allows the rig to stay flatter, lateral to the road. It resists the sidecar's suspension's tendancy to bottom out in left hand corners (with right hand mount rigs) by allowing the unloaded motorcycle suspension to lend assistance to the sidecar wheel, and also acts like a torsion bar independant of the motorcycle suspension.
Like a car equipped with a swaybar, it allows a rig to travel down the road stablely, resisting any tendancy to weave side to side from one suspension compression to the other. It's a toss-up as far as i am concerned, as to what is the better mod to a rig to perform first - the front end geometry correction, or some form of swaybar - personally, i'd say do both at once if possible.
Which is better a swaybar or a leading link? I agree the comparison is an apples and oranges one in a way but we are talking about which choice will give th ebest or most benefit for the money spent right?
In a nutshell a swaybar will enhance handling and a leading link will make the rig easier to steer.Without getting into the splitting hairs mode a leading link will not help handling. If a rig originally handled like a softly sprung wallowing pig it will still do so with a leading link but will be easier to steer. If the bike/sidecar suspension is stock the rig will benfit greatly on all fronts from a swaybar as Bill described. A swaybar will also benefit the feel even on straight roads as it will compensate for road camber changes etc to a certain degree.
There are many ways to make steering easier other than forking out bucks for a leading link. These low buck mods will be more effective on some bikes than others. Wider bars for more leverage. Bar backs also give more leverage. A smaller rolling diameter front tire will reduce trail some. Running the front forks up into the triple trees a little helps reduce trail. Raising the rear of the bike helps too.
In over 20 years of owning sidecars I have yet to own a rig with a leading link on it. I have rode them and even built them. I am building two now. But so far have not owned one MYSELF..maybe someday.
The cost of a swaybar is about a fourth that of a leading link. So which gives the best value related to costs incured? I would have to vote for the swaybar.
Very interesting... Personally, riding a GS, I have wide handlebars and, this might sound strange to some, being that the effort in the curves is a bit less than a narrower handlebar, I like the effort... please don't laugh, but it is building up my upper body strenght!... and my posture is already better than what it has been in the past... the bottom line is I look at it as a work out at times, specially going up the twisties to Two Wheels Only or any of the tight twistie roads that surround me here... my upper strenght building up I am finding it easier and easier to ride up those roads... or down! Maybe I see things differently... my theorie was the same when living on sailboats for 28 years never wanting electric or hydraulic winches!... At 57 I am lazy regarding physical exercises... which I should not be... this situation gives me a chance to enjoy it!
The handling of a motorcycle has always been my primordial need... always having Ohlins or Penskes and the torsion bar has given me and more the handling that I am happy with... not to mention meeting Claude and his Armenian friend (as I am also) Harry... two very deranged individuals... Artists and Geniuses... I mean... who in their right mind would put a Subaru engine in theit BMW motorcycle! (laugh)... or should I say... "kids will be kids"... and then again "it is never too late to have a happy childhood...".
You be well... and glad that some of you's have enjoyed the pictures...
Ara
When I was a firearms instructor, I heard a saying, "Beware the man who owns only one gun". That man will know the quirks and deficiencies of that one weapon and has learned to compensate and excel. That applies here as well. I too do not have a leading link front end, or for that matter a sway bar. I am new to sidecars and have no complaints about the performance of my rig, but I don't have anything to compare it to at this stage. This lack of experience does not diminish my enjoyment in the least. Enjoy what you've got or can afford and get good at it. If you have to enter that curve a little slower than someone else, don't let it rain on your parade. On the other hand, it seems that there is also a great deal of satisfaction to be had tinkering with any machine to make it better. What ever blows your hair back. Buy the way, I have noticed that my physical stamina has improved since that first month of riding.
Originally written by Mark in Idaho on 4/19/2006 9:23 AM
When I was a firearms instructor, I heard a saying, "Beware the man who owns only one gun". That man will know the quirks and deficiencies of that one weapon and has learned to compensate and excel. That applies here as well. I too do not have a leading link front end, or for that matter a sway bar. I am new to sidecars and have no complaints about the performance of my rig, but I don't have anything to compare it to at this stage. This lack of experience does not diminish my enjoyment in the least. Enjoy what you've got or can afford and get good at it. ... it seems that there is also a great deal of satisfaction to be had tinkering with any machine to make it better. What ever blows your hair back. Buy the way, I have noticed that my physical stamina has improved since that first month of riding.
It's taken me over three years to get my rig to the point where i'm happy with it - thats 3 years of 3 successive winters with absolutely no social life, and a very intimate knowlege of a hacksaw.
Unless you are deep-pockets rich, there is no way you can do this all at once IMHO. Learn how to drive your rig the way it is, enjoy it for what it is, learn about the mods that make a rig better, and prioritize what (if any) you want to do - have a plan of action.
It may even shake out that what you have now, is not what you want as a long term rig - it may or may not be an entry level rig - in which case, make maximal use of what you have now, enjoy it, and when the time comes, buy or build what is the next level for you as an ideal rig.
I've watched Bandit Bills project progress with great admiration, even a little envy. However my wife and 6 year old son would never let me spend that kind of time on a project let alone the money. I'm content with my 1983 Honda GL650 with Dneper sidecar for which I paid what most people spend on just the chair alone.
