I've read something here and there about swaybars on sidecars... Mainly- what do they do? Also, would one benefit everone, and how would I retro-fit one on an old stinker like mine?
I believe that what is often being called a swaybar is, in reality, a
steering damper, a sometimes adjustable device that offers resistance to sudden motion such as side to side "head shaking". I am sure that sucha device is fairly easily installed on nearly every rig, even though brackets may have to be fabricated or purchased in some cases..
Some please correct me if I am wrong...Newfiedad
How a sway bar works. Check out the article on my web site by Bill Ballou.
http://members.aol.com/sidebike99/sidecararticles.html
Roger
Swaybars are "apples and oranges" to steering dampners. I could not get the above link to work but here is what I suspect is the same article with video demonstrations.
http://hometown.aol.com/sidebike00/Page31.html
Claude Stanley and others retro-fit them and everything I hear from those who have it done involve the words "night and day" when it comes to handling.
My new rig is, of course, getting one.
Sarge
This subject greatly interests me. However, a question comes to mind. I have a '79 Guzzi 1000SP with a Hannigan Classic, installed by Hannigans. I also had their Electronic Camber Control (which I really like) and a steering damper installed. Any thoughts on how these two devices would affect (or vice versa) the operation of a swaybar? Also, I am unclear as to the exact mounting locations for the bar. Thanks...
Sorry, I thought of one other question. When dealing with some of my old LBCs (Little British Cars) the subject of swaybar (antiroll bar) vs panhard rod vs Watt's linkage always came up. (I am aware that these last two deal with locating the rear-end in an auto.) I am thinking in terms of the sidecar in relation to the bike, and the connection of the device. Are any of these applicable here? Am I in over my head? Again, thanks.
Bill,
I have EDITED THIS THREE TIMES NOW AND CANNOT GET IT TO POST RIGHT...SEE NEXT POST MAYBE IT WILL WORK..
Originally written by bill_powell on 10/29/2006 10:17 AM
This subject greatly interests me. However, a question comes to mind. I have a '79 Guzzi 1000SP with a Hannigan Classic, installed by Hannigans. I also had their Electronic Camber Control (which I really like) and a steering damper installed. Any thoughts on how these two devices would affect (or vice versa) the operation of a swaybar? Also, I am unclear as to the exact mounting locations for the bar. Thanks...
As Tom Brown (Sarge) mentioned the steering damper is not related directly to a swaybar at all. I have had swaybars once installed take away some of the wobble in a rig but that is not the intention at all.
As far as a swaybar being installed on a rig with an electric or manual tilt control (or whatever name any given company wishes to label them) , yes, it can be done and will still be a benefit. Typically once a swaybar is installed the owner will not be using the tilt control nearly as much as he or she did without it. The idea oF the swaybar is to make for a flatter cornering rig. It also makes the rig not as sensitive to camBer changes in the road as well as varying loads in the sidecar. What we see happening is that on any given rig the operator will set it up where it feels best and from there do very little adjustments due to the swaybar than previously. Yes you can still use the camber (tilt) adjustor and ,yes, it will still work. Using it will also now 'wind up' or pre load the swaybar. This is not a bad thing but if it gets to where the swaybar is always in the preloaded stance then it can be adjusted by shortening or lenghtening one of the mounting links.
I have not instaleld a swaybar on a Hannigan. They have two issues on them (except the bandito) which are a concern. Number one is the rear pivot swingarm. This in itself is not a big deal to over come alone. I have installed swaybars on terraplanes that worked very well with their rear pivot sidecar swingarm. With a conventional Hanniagn however the sidecar sits very low and the sidecar frame is up inside a molded in recession in the underside of the body. This makes swaybar installation difficult. I am not saying it cannot be done and am not saying there woudl not be benefits derived from it but it would be a challenge. Running the swaybar through the body woudl be an option to alleviate these issues but woudl probably not be very appealing to many hannigan owners. Raising the sidecar's ground height woudl also be effective but I wonder if it is the right way to go. If your rig handles well now and the tilt (camber ) adjustor is doing well for you then maybe installing a swaybar on it is not worth the effort. Don't get me wrong though as it woudl make a difference in handling and I would be more than happy to do one sometime.
Originally written by bill_powell on 10/29/2006 10:31 AM
Sorry, I thought of one other question. When dealing with some of my old LBCs (Little British Cars) the subject of swaybar (antiroll bar) vs panhard rod vs Watt's linkage always came up. (I am aware that these last two deal with locating the rear-end in an auto.) I am thinking in terms of the sidecar in relation to the bike, and the connection of the device. Are any of these applicable here? Am I in over my head? Again, thanks.
Panhard bars (which have been called swaybars over the years by some in error) , watts links, jacobs ladders, 'w' links, track bars and so on are used to keep the lateral plaement of the rear end in a car consistant or to allow it to move on a predetermined path. They also are a means to adjust the roll center height on a car (listen to a NASCAR race sometime and you will hear them say " he came in and they did a track bar adjustment" or "they raised (or lowered)the track bar".) . This adjustment moves the roll center and can unhook the rear of the car to get away from and understeer situation or hook up the rear of the car to get away from and oversteer situation. The confusion that may come about on how this relates to swaybars is not an issue with us here. Racers, especially road racers, have used adjustable swaybars for years. These can be adjusted, by the driver in many cases, to also make the car oversteer or understeer oR to correct an unwanted handling situation. The effects are not due to roll center height adjustments in thsi case but to the stiffening of the roll resistance on that end of the car. Typically the stiffer end of the car will break loose before the sofer end. So by stiffening one end with a swaybar adjustment (usually lengthening or shortening the efective length of the arm weith maybe a slider of some sort) will unhook that end of th ecar or visa versa.
Bottom line? A swaybar on any rig will help cornering in right and left hand turns. The most dramatic effects are realized by softly sprung machines. Dual sport type sidecar with their long travel suspensions and high cente rof gravity really shine on a hard road after a swaybar is installed. The body sway seems much more manageble and the tipsy feeling expecially in a left hander is gone. I have done a few of these types of rigs and it is very gratifying to see the smile son the drivers face after the installation is tried out. The nice thing here is that one end of the swaybar can be unhooked if the rig is going to be ridden in really rough terrain. On most surfaces it can be left on though.
Claude, thanks much for the info. Very helpful. It does sound like my Hannigan might be difficult, but I am not rejecting the idea yet. I'll give it some thought. I'm located in Tennessee, by the way. How far away from me are you?
I am in central Pa. Penns Creek which is about 50 miles north of Harrisburg.
Mr Sidebike, is that swaybar all custom fabbed?
What is your website address so I can easily return for a real study.
Folks, I have seen a bunch of old Beemers but never a swaybar. If anyone has seen one, I'd sure like to get an idea of where it would mount.
http://members.aol.com/sidebike99/sidecararticles.html
When on Roger's site be sure to look at the video on swaybars. It pretty much shows what the effect of them can be.
as i recall,Bandit Bill had some shots on his website of a swaybar on his old Hannigan comet.it was also a leading link suspension,although it didn't have the ecc feature. on my next project i am thinking of trying to incorperate one with the ecc.if all goes well i am planning on doing a Warrior with an astro sport as my next rig
Excellent Dave. Keep us posted please 🙂
