Royal Enfield rig; Just a toy?

UncleErnie - 6/13/2010 5:42 AM

I've had BMW sidecars for maybe 35 years. But I've been thinking...

I have an AVL Bullet with over 8K miles on it that averages around 60 on the freeway. Not recommended use, but it does it with no complaints. (Was I really the only one with a Musketball at British In The Blue Ridge?!) I live in the mountains, not Kansas or Florida. So-

I assmue I'd need to add 2 teeth to the rear sprocket. Anyone know what a comfortable top speed would then be with a light tub?
Would I need stronger springs in the forks?
Would I need to do roller-bearing conversion up front?
Would I NEED a 5 degree steering head thinger-winger?

Truthfully, I don't do big trips anymore, but it IS nice to occasionally use the 1000cc I have on tap.
Anyone with actual experience here? Am I nuts (as far as this goes anyway)?

As I understand the models of Royal Enfields that are available nowadays, they are the East Indian versions. They come in 350cc (21 cu.in.) and 500cc (30.50 cu.in). Are you saying that you have one with 1000 cc?

Stronger springs in the forks wouldn't hurt but you might also be able to install some short (1-2") PVC tubing spacers on top of the existing spings to see how it works.

Are you speaking of roller bearings on the front wheel bearings or on the fork head? More information is needed. In any case, there is nothing wrong with ball bearings in either location assuming that they are in good condition and properly lubricated.

If you are going to dedicate the machine to sidecar use and you can afford it, the modified triple trees would be the way to go. Otherwise, a steering damper would be helpful. Remember, modified trees may affect handling if the machine is later ridden solo.

Hello Uncle Ernie,
As somebody who lives way up in the mountains too I just want to warn you.
You have a nice toy on 2 wheels. As you might remember I have just a Jawa 350 with the extremely light weight Velorex 562 (560?).
And I learned a few things:
Mountain range=> four stroker (as you have) =>water cooled (as you do not have) => Extra power (As you do not have) => extra short gearing (as you might acomplish).
Imagine that I had to do in only 25000km allready 2 engine overhauls (at 4440 and 18600km) that was way too expensive A bigger bike from the beginning would have been cheaper.
I recommend you keep your Indian Lady for the light duty 2 wheeler fun tours. And get something water cooled for the sidecar.
Best wishes from Costa Rica.
Sven

To clarify; I currently have a BMW -1965 frame w 1978 R100 engine in it, with a 1952 Steib S500 on it.

I also -in addition- have a Royal Enfield Bullet 500. I was sort of thinking of putting a sidecar on it just so I'd have an excuse to get a Duna sidecar.
After some research I decided putting a sidecar on a basically stock 500 single while living in the mountains is kind of a dumb idea.

By the way how does the Royal Enfield behave as a single?
Does she have some torque from beyond?

I remember my NSU Supermax could have made a lot of fun, if not some drunken guy would have come out of his yard... And me (better said best buddy) without number plate.

Sven

Peter Pan - 6/25/2010 5:53 AM

By the way how does the Royal Enfield behave as a single?
Does she have some torque from beyond?

I remember my NSU Supermax could have made a lot of fun, if not some drunken guy would have come out of his yard... And me (better said best buddy) without number plate.

Sven

Hi Sven. I haven't seen you here for a while.

I remember that there were a few NSU's in the US back in the 1950's At one time they held the World's Speed Record at around 180 mph. I always liked the cam drive mechanism that they uses, sort of like a pair of locomotive connecting rods.

I don't know about the power and handling of the new Royal Enfields that are built in India but I did own a new 1957 model. It was badged as an Indian but it was really a 500cc Royal Enfield Bullet with a red paint job that said Indian on the fuel tank.

They also used the 750cc Enfield vertical twin (Meteor?) and re-badged it as the "Indian Chief". That was a complete turnoff to the died in the wool Indian fans who promptly turned their backs on the former Indian Motocycle (sic) dealers who fostered such heresy after the demise of Indian at the end of 1953.

The English Bullet was quite good handling and lively. The principal fault was the transmission which was questionable, even when new. It had a trick "neutral finder" lever which was easily engaged at unlikely times with your boot when you were in a tight corner at high speed. I did that one day and wound up in a cow pasture, replete with cow pies.

Other than that, it was a great little bike. I suspect that if fitted with a sidecar, say a Ural type, it would make a good light tug but they are still down in power for anything high speed.

I do think the quality of the present-day models is a bit better than the originals.

The new Unit Construction Enfields are brilliant; almost Japanese in dependability and can cruise the freeway at 65 no problem. They seem to be >ahem< bulletproof.
I don't have one of those, however.

I have an aluminium barrel model with 5 speeds and electronic ignition. (The AVL was an interim model bridging the gap between the iron barrel and new UCE) It still takes a fair amount of care, but here in the mountains, it is great fun. I am more patient with it, and it returns the favor. I love it.

Just for the sake of conversation, there is a Bullet with Cozy for sale in the "Complete Rigs" section

http://sidecar.com/mbbs22/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=8357&posts=2&start=1

Ernie I think your Bullet would do well with a car . I've seen a few out here in California at different events and they should be more than adequate for putting around the mountains.
My next rig will be a 67 BSA VE with Vantech leading link frontend and I know it will be a step up from my present rig.... a 1960 Greeves Scottish/Hawkstone with a modified Velorex 560.
This particular BSA was once a desert racer hack.

Heck all sidecars are toys anyway. Some are just a little slower(or lighter!) than others. Lets not take ourselves too seriously here, we are talking about asymmetrical vehicles,
bad tricycles. If you were a kid your father would have made you throw it away!

My rig is under 350 lbs., geared down to a top speed of 47 mph but it is in fact a very capable double track- no track hooligan vehicle.
You've got the Bullet, get an inexpensive sidecar, modify it and make a retro- original- dual- sport rig. Go ahead....

Make your day!

Don in Nipomo

Last night I maintained 60-65mph in driving rain on my BMW rig. This is going up and down steep grades that go on for a long way. It's hard for me to imagine doing that on a Royal Enfield 500 dragging an anchor.

This AM I bailed 2 inches of standing water out of the tub...

I have just as hard a time imagining you standing up on the pegs and picking your way thru a narrow forest trail on a 1000cc BMW hack.
Horses for Courses... I guess.
No, your Bulllet rig would not do everything your BMW will do, but I thought you wanted to try something different.
Do you want someone to talk you out of it or in to it? I can be an advocate for either.

If the sidecar rig is to be used only on city streets, then it probably doesn't matter that it's only good for 50 mph. That's just too slow for me.

Hey Don!

I haven't seen you since the Paso Robles event.

I picked up an old Bingham Sidestrider about a week after we met; a conversation with Doug revealed it to be a 1969 model; no suspension, 12" 5-lug wheel, maybe 150# total (I can carry the thing). The mounting tangs are 1/2" so are a bit on the light side for duty on my R75 (in my opinion) but more than adequate for "town work" on a smaller bike. The Sidestrider article Doug provided me with show it fitted to an R/69.

I'm restoring it; someone welded a 5/16" thick steel plate to the underside of the frame (why they didn't just throw a sandbag in the tub is beyond me) - it was a total hack job; torch-cut, poor penetration, weird spacing, etc. ... looked like juniors first attempt at welding). The tub is showing it's age so will receive a few lams of 3/4 oz. mat and 1-1/2 oz. cloth in the area around the cockpit opening. It was not originally fitted with a windshield but over the years someone drilled holes for one, so maybe I fabricate one for it. It needs a seat but I have some plywood blanks cuts to size; there a couple of good "seat guys" here in Oceano. It's blocked out and ready for primer right now.

If I had an old 350-450 UJM it would be the perfect tug for it. Might even be a good choice for an old Vespa.

Lew

Hello Gaylord, Ernie, Don and friends,
I had been a little quiet for a while because I opened my mouth TOO wide:
Since January I am at a CIP-Installation where I prommised to include everything I would find in the used stuff container...
My PLC's capacity had to grow from 45 to 157 In/outs as well as pneumatic valves grew from 2 to 12....
I guess that tells enough about my ocupation in the factory and my homeshop.

Well I got used to mill and lathe again after a long time just playing the electric trick.
After hours behind the screen documentating and programming You have enough from it and your square eyes need a rest.

That is the reason why I was so quiet.
---

Riding was very little this summer which was a great one. The rainy season now is preety heavy this year.
---The kids are fed up....."Ma, who is that Uncle coming into the door!"

My arguments for Uncle Ernie are the following:
The bullet is a street bike and in the green it and your back are suffering more then needed to be. I do it myself with the Jawa often and heavy, it is in deed a great fun, but I pay tripple price for it: Back pain + medical treatment, excesive wear on the bike, and a lot of workshop hours at the importer.

Pick the way through the trees... it is way easier then you think with the rig, ask my daughter who whacked out the position light a few weeks ago...

If it would be available to a reasonable price (24.000€+bike+Import+(60%?) 200%Importtax) the german 2 wheeldrive with gear down is way out of my price range.
So myself for the mountain range I think of a water cooled Enduro with a few self made gadgets.
But when with this work skedule....

Hey... I am proud to have finished Thirsday the wooden bank at my fishing pond. (5 years ago the Storm pulled down that Cypress tree, 3 gardeners and myself put in their man power into it.

So tell me somebody when I will be able to realize my personel dreams...
My wife is demanding the installation for the farms gate I made 1992, and the motor I bought 2004. In October I milled the swivel base for it.
...
Best wishes and don't think I am yealous about those who have the time to fullfill their dreams.
Meanwhile I fullfill other people dreams .

Hi, ... and sometimes my own.
A few month ago a Canadian citizen aproached me at the gate as I pulled out the rig...
"Seams you are ahead of me... the one wins who at the end owns the most personell toys..."

On, On.
(An optocoupler waits on the bench.)

Sven

Hi Sven. Well, it's nice to be busy where ever you are.

The Royal Enfield 500 could be OK on a rig for around town as I say. I like more power for a touring machine, however.

When I was a kid in Chicago, there was an importer/dealer for Jawa-CZ bikes. I owned a used 125cc CZ and later a 250cc Jawa single. It was a two-stroke and very well made. Jawa also made a 350cc twin cylinder two-stroke that I got to ride one day at the dealer. It was very smooth and powerful. They also built the same machine under a different name: Ogar - sort of like Matchless and AJS.

Is your Jawa 350cc a two-stroke or a four-stoike engine? How many cylinders does it have?

It's nice to hear from you again.

🙂