I have only had this rig since August. It's a Ural sidecar mounted on a Honda GL650 Silverwing.I live in the mountains of Idaho at 5000 feet elevation. It snows here quit a bit during the winter. It snowed a little last night so I went to the highschool parking lot to see where the limits are. Its seems pretty solid in the snow. It has good traction from the dual sport tires I have on it. But I found that the front tire washes out on left hand turns if I enter the turn too fast. Is this something I have to live with, or are there things that I can adjust(more weight on front tire?).
Any other snow driving suggestions or warnings would be appreciated.
Entering a left or right hand turn too fast is not a good idea in ice and snow(or any conditions).
Gotta go slow and test the rigs capabilities in bad conditions.
If you go slowly you can always speed up - go to fast - your outta control and in trouble.
Not sure if you want to add weight to the front wheel either.Hal is the expert on the physics and would be able to shed some light on this subject.
The twin tire we offer in a 125 90 VR 16 is a M + S rated tire, It would be for the rear of the bike and works "Ok" in the snow. I usualy also carry tire chains for both ends.
Jay Giese
Dauntless Motors Corporation
www.dauntlessmotors.com
866-638-1793
As Lenny mentioned entering a turn too fast is always a problem to deal with. The concern on very loose surfaces is many times related to what our judgement of 'too fast' is. Winter road surfaces can change quickly in a few feet. This can be dangerous to the unwary for obvious reasons. When the front tire breaks loose (understeer)we can usually only 'back off' in an attempt to regain traction. Sometime some body english may be useful as in shifiting weight to the front of the bike to 'unlaod' the rear. The amount of lead on the rig is a factor in how much traction is on hand for the front tire. In this case less lead is probably an advantage versus more. On a consitantly slick surface understeer can be alleviated by inducing oversteer going into a turn. In other words get the rear end broken loose first. This needs to be practiced to become proficient at it. There is a balance between the two extremes that can only come from practice with the rig at hand. Tires on the rear that provide good traction are often spoken of. These can be trials type tires or even studded or 'boltd' tires. Some have actually ran chains on the rear. The problem of understeer is magnified if the traction of the front tire is not enhanced along with the rear tire. Studs do work on the front tire pretty well if you can find someone to install them.
Lack of Front tire traction can be especially aggrivating when going up a hill. Steering can be compromised to the point that the rig seems to have a mind of it's own. Braking is obviously a big concern on icy and snowy surfaces too.
Practice is fun and beneficial. From this you can determine some basic limits as you get to know how your specific rig behaves in the snow. Knowing this and riding sensably can make riding in the snow a lot of fun on an outfit. There are dangers associated with it that are much different than on a noraml dry surface and it will be your judgement that narrows your odds of staying out of trouble. Practice and slowing down are sure steps in the right direction.
Be carful out there !
Well, after the last storm, it appears that the problems are not so much with the snow as the ice under it.
It turns out that I am able to restore front wheel traction by either giving the rear some extra power, or touch the rear brake to get the rear end to slide out just enough to get the front wheel back in business.
Turning or going straight, it doesn't matter what I do if the sand truck doesn't get to the intersections before I do. You have to plan way ahead for that.
Mark
Think of it, a sidecar motorcycle has one steer tire. A "cage" has two steer tires. For the sidecar outfit, if that steer tire is on a slippery road surface, it will wash out. For the cage, both tires need to be on the slippery surface for the front to wash out.
Mark wrote:
>>Well, after the last storm, it appears that the problems are not so much with the snow as the ice under it.
It turns out that I am able to restore front wheel traction by either giving the rear some extra power, or touch the rear brake to get the rear end to slide out just enough to get the front wheel back in business.
Turning or going straight, it doesn't matter what I do if the sand truck doesn't get to the intersections before I do. You have to plan way ahead for that.<<
What you said is right on Mark. There are limits of course and, yes, ice with a little bit of snow on top of it is possibly the worst case scenario. Ice alone is bad too. Snow alone is not so bad and control is much better.
You hit it on the head when you mentioned the idea of breaking the rear wheel traction to regain steering ability. If traction is broke with power on you can actually steer with the rear wheel so to speak. It takes some practice to get a feel for it and is not consistanly effective so be careful.This will not apply to straight line running of course but only to turns. Riding on slick surfaces can be fun but there are many hidden dangers out there. Proceed cauttiously and do not get overconfident. Things can change real fast according to the surface conditions and what worked so good on the last turn can put you into a snow bank on the next one.
Best policy is to only ride when it is felt conditions can be controlled within reason. Stay off of the ice and snow covered ice surfaces if possible and take it easy. Inconsitant surfaces can bite pretty hard and it is no fun being hurt and stuck at the same time.
On the subject if riding in the snow/winter, does anyone know for sure if studs are allowable on the roads in NY state.
Some friends had been discussing the various ways to make the tires better for winter driving and the idea of implanting some studs came up.
I thought they were illegal in NY state.
Any imput would be appreciated.
Thanks.
mark, where you at in Idaho? I'd just as soon get in the cage in this.
His profile says Hailey ID. I haven't looked at a map to see if Hailey is on the map... Where in Idaho are you? If you're northern maybe we can cross paths for a cup one of these days...
You are the guy in Priest River?
Better make sure this is current but anyhow...here ya go:
2004 U.S. Metal Studded Tire Regulations for Passenger Cars
Below is a list of metal studded tire regulations, current as of October 2004. Listed below each state's postal abbreviations are permissions and contact information. Dates refer to the time frame during which metal studded tires may be used.
Consult state or local Department of Transportation officials if you have any doubt about legality in your area.
AL
Permitted
334.242.4371
AK
Permitted Sept. 15 - May 1
www.dps.state.ak.us
AZ
Oct. 1 - May 1
www.dps.state.az.us
AR
Nov. 15 - Apr. 15
501.618.8800
CA
Nov.1 - Apr. 30. Unless heavy storm; then may be permitted.
530.577.1001
CO
Permitted all year
303.239.4500
CT
Nov.15 - Apr. 30
860.685.8441
DE
Oct. 15 - Apr. 15
302.744.2505
DC
Permitted
202.727.1000
FL
Prohibited. Studs that do not damage the highways are permitted.
www.fhp.state.fl.us
GA
Permitted only when ice and snow are on the roads.
404.624.7000
HI
Prohibited. Metal studs allowed on Mauna Kea
ID
Oct. 1 - Apr. 30
208.884.7200
IL
Permitted only if disabled sticker or plate is displayed OR if rural letter carrier. Nov. 15 - April 1
217.782.7263
IN
Oct. 1 - May 1
317.232.8200
IA
Nov. 1 - Apr. 1
515.281.5261
KS
Nov. 1 - Apr. 1
785.296.6800
KY
Permitted
502.564.3276
LA
Permitted (Rubber)
225.925.7057
ME
Oct. 1 - Apr. 30
207.324.0613
MD
Nov. 1 - Mar. 31
MA
Nov. 1 - Apr. 30
MI
A person may operate on a highway a vehicle which has a pneumatic tire in which are inserted ice grips or tire studs if the person is a law enforcement officer operating a vehicle owned by a law enforcement agency, a person operating an ambulance, or a U.S. postal service rural carrier driving a vehicle the rural carrier owns and maintains as a prerequisite to employment in the postal service.
517.332.2521
MN
Prohibited. Nonresidents passing through and abiding home states law are permitted. Full-time nonresident students and nonresidents employed within MN are not permitted use of studded tires, regardless of vehicle registry. Rural mail carriers may use studded tires under certain conditions.
651.297.3935
MS
No restrictions. (Rubber)
601.987.1212
MO
Nov. 1 - Apr. 1
MT
Oct. 1 - May 31
406.329.1510
NE
Nov. 1 - Apr. 15
308.535.8047
NV
Oct. 1 - Apr. 30
775.888.7000
NH
Permitted
603.271.2575
NJ
Nov. 15 - Apr. 1
609.882.2000
NM
Permitted
www.nmsp.com
NY
Oct 16 - Apr. 30
716.343.2200
NC
Permitted only when ice and snow are on the roads.
704.637.0207
ND
Oct. 15 - Apr. 15
701.328.2455
OH
Nov. 1 - Apr. 15
740.695.0915
OK
Nov. 1 - Apr. 1
405.425.2285
OR
Nov. 1 - Apr. 1
503.378.3720
PA
Nov. 1 - Apr. 15
717.264.5161
RI
Nov. 15 - Apr. 1
401.444.1000
SC
Permitted if not projected more than 1/16 inch when compressed.
803.896.7920
SD
Oct. 1 - Apr. 30
605.773.3178
TN
Oct. 1 - Apr. 15
615.741.3181
TX
Only studs that will not damage the highway are permitted.
512.424.2000
UT
Oct. 15 - Mar. 31
801.965.4461
VT
Permitted
802.244.7345
VA
Oct. 15 - Apr. 15
804.674.2000
WA
Nov. 1 - Mar. 31
360.705.7863
WV
Nov. 1 - Apr. 15
304.746.2100
WI
Prohibited
608.846.8500
WY
Permitted. Studs cannot injure the highway.
307.674.8569
Source: Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA)
Originally written by lumpc1 on 12/11/2005 1:52 PM
You are the guy in Priest River?
No, I'm in Reardan just west of Spokane but not far from C d'A area.
I'm near Sun Valley, South Central Idaho
maybe we otta have a bash in Idaho
