I am new and trying to figure sidecars out so please bear with me.
First the bike that we plan to modify is a 94 Harley classic. It has been a great touring bike. The hack will carry a passenger for several thousand miles this summer but after that it will probably carry camping gear, groceries. It will also be a vehicle that is easy to ride for a person with minor strength limitations. Now for the questions.
There are large price differences in after market hacks and I wonder what you get for your money? Is it cosmetic, handling, durability, or ???
With all the variations of manufactured sidecars, and even more in custom side cars, the question comes up if a sidecar is a machine that is hard to get right or is it a machine that is hard to get wrong?
Can you just stick most hacks on a bike like ours, add ballast, raked trees, make numerous adjustments and end up with a good long distance touring hack? Could it be that easy? Every manufacturer seems to say that their hack will handle as well as the next. Most manufacturers seem conserned with style while we are definately conserned with drivability.
My wife and I normally ride our own bikes and when on the road. We often put in very long days. Formost, if we are going to bring a side car along it must be pleasant to drive. Otherwise it will just be parked, then disassembled and soon resold. I am hoping that some of you can help us get it right the first time.
I talked to a very experienced sidecar fellow recently. A wonderful gentleman, when we got on the subject of brakes he stated that the hack brake is pretty useless in a hard braking situation due to weight tranfer.
Also that a hack can be swerved while braking hard unlike a solo bike.
It made sense as he explained it. Since riders styles vary so much I
wonder if others of you who have ridden many miles have similar feelings about hard braking, hack brakes and handling. My wife and I are not experienced sidecar drivers. Good brakes are important. Having a useless 15 lbs attached to the wheel of the hack along with the expense involved in reworking the bike's brakes is something I would rather avoid if it is unnecessary.
Thank you for your time,
Joe
Since you are in WA, consider taking a STEP class through the Evergreen Safety Council here in Seattle. While you are doing that you could visit Liberty Sidecars in Seattle and maybe Dauntless Motors down in Enumclaw. You could also trek to Boise and check out Northwest sidecars. For sure, put this event on your calendar:
June 14 – 17, 2007 – The First Ever USCA NW Regional Sidecar Rally to be held at Alpine Country Store & RV Park, 17568 N Highway 95, Hayden Lake, ID 83835-7807, 208-772-4305. Registration includes three nights tent camping, morning coffee & donuts, sidecar games, guided tours, parade, rally pin, trophies, door prizes. Pre-registration by 5/14/07, $25 single, $30 couple, $40 family w/children under 12 free. Registration after 5/14/07, add $5. Active USCA members receive $5 off pre, post or at the rally registration, send copy of membership card with registration. Optional activities at additional costs are Thursday evening get acquainted meal $8.95 to $9.95, Saturday evening catered meal at the rally site $10 per person, 50/50 and raffle prizes. Friday’s evening meal is an open activity. Limited number of RV sites $24.67 per night, call 208-772-4305 and mention rally by name. For more information contact Billie Leonard 208-687-1086, bikerbillie@icehouse.net or Tom Wells 509-796-4850 (before 8 PM) tewells@centurytel.net .
Taking a class and talking to other folks at rallies is a great way to get your questions answered and it's lots of fun too.
Oh - check out this page too:
http://www.sidecar.com/Maps/washington.htm
Enjoy the journey!
Fastjoe,
If it is just information you are looking for, I may be able to help since I am a little closer to you. My rig is at Liberty right now, and I hope to have it back around the first week of April. Weather depending it will be in Chewelah on a weekend not long after that. You would be welcome to stop by and take a peek. I will know more about what weekend in a week or two.
Kevin
First I'd like to second what Steve stated, If a sidecar course is available, it is the ideal opportunity to get a feel for driving a rig. With vists to at least a couple dealers you will have a much greater awareness of what is available. The factory Harley chair has several unique features that may make it right or wrong for your needs, but try to examine a few of your other options before you decide. Regardless of what you choose, your satisfaction with the rig will be greater knowing you selected what was right for you.
The sidecar wheel is actually a pretty good place to add some extra weigh to help a rigs handling. I vote for a brake on the rig, mounted with a separate pedal. You don't need to use it, but it can help in some situations, and other then cost has no major liabilities. I would not not eliminate rigs with out a sidecar brake if it best met your other needs.
Let me know ahead of time when you will be in the area.
I would like to talk with you and see your rig.
Joe
Hi Joe,
I'm not too far south of you here at Reardan. If you're ever down this way let's get together for a cup. Also be sure to plan on at least stopping by the rally at Hayden Lake, Idaho in June or better yet, plan on attending!
As you are looking for passenger comfort for the long haul, one prime consideration is the size and agility of your companion. This is one of the major differences in the cars available on the market. Some have easy access, some you have to climb up and in (or out) of. Some have uncomfortable moulded seat shells. Some open up for entry and exit (but may have rattle or leakage problems). Some are completely enclosed (some like this, some feel trapped). Seasoned riders may like an open cockpit which feels more like riding a bike. Depending on weather conditions a closed cockpit may be desirable or it may be a hotbox.
The streamlined cars are sleeker but may offer less storage space. The large cars are more work to handle without major accessorizing, and may be better left for dedicated hackers or those without physical limitations.
I would suggest trying before buying any model of car. At least for passenger comfort. Feedback is available on this site from various brand owners. All you need to do is post the question.
One thing most will agree on is that an near stock EVO Harley with a TLE car will have trouble maintaining freeway speeds in strong headwinds and hills without shifting to a lower gear than 5th. This will decrease mileage by about 25%. So will cruising at over about 65 MPH. Due to the weight of the car and wind resistance.
Most all cars will need a sub-frame to mount up to your bike unless you happen to run across a Harley car of the same year or so. The bodies haven't changed in appearance for many years but Harley mounting systems evolved along with frame designs through the years so just because it's a Harley car doesn't mean it will fit your bike without the correct mounts.
Lonnie, Rigger
Northwest Sidecars
Boise, ID
Lonnie,
Did you ever consider another manufacturer before you went with the Harley car? I have a 2003 Road King and am torn between the Harley hack and the one from Liberty. According to Liberty, the Harley sub-frame uses a three-point mounting system making it comparatively flexible. The Harley sidecar has no suspension and depends on its flexibility to provide ride quality. The Libery, on the other hand, uses a four-point mounting system that triangulates the chassis, making it rigid and allowing the suspension of the Liberty sidecar to do its job. The only caveat to the Liberty car is that a weld-nut has to be welded to the frame somewhere to accomodate the subframe. I don't know where exactly this weld-nut goes, been trying to find out more.
Now, I've never seen either one so I am only going on what I've learned over the internet and from others. Your thoughts?
- John
Took me a while to figure out the forum. The info you posted was most helpful. The cheap classes are filled up and we probably won't be able to swing the more expensive ones as our side car budget is only so big.
We try to see you at Hayden Lake. The books are wonderful, just what I was looking for. Again great info.
Thanks,
Joe
Thanks for your reply. I will keep the brake in mind. It may end up being added later. Right now I am hoping to find a used ural or other car with suspension, easy egress and a large wheel. Looks like I am a canadate for a subframe or adapters of some sort to get a solid mount to the frame. Lot of stuff to work out. You folks are wonderful around here so far as sharing info. Says a lot for you as a group. If you run across a used rig or see an adthat sounds like what I described please forward it to me.
Thanks,
joe
Perhaps we can get together soon. I am off work right now waiting for bi lateral shoulder surgery etc. Yes it will be me riding in the sidecar, my wife will be driving. I can't do much physically like this somy schedule is pretty wide open. (It is not quite that simple but I really
want to see some hacks up close so I can figure out what I have to do
to actually mount one up)
I'll buy the coffee or beer, (I have a designated driver). I'd like to pick your brain, see how your hack mounts, get some hints, etc. Let me know what you think.
Lonie,
Thanks for all the help on the phone. I learned a lot! I am glad that I got a chance to talk with you. Please get back to me with the info when you have the time.
Joe
Hi John,
Not Lonnie here, but I too have been trying to work all this out. I decided against the HD car because of the washboard roads I live on. It is not going to do the job. Pity cause they look good.
I am facing the same problems you are trying to get a four point mount on a HD. Here is a link to a California side-car on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CALIFORNIA-SIDECAR-HARLEY-VSTAR-SHADOW-VTX_W0QQitemZ190094826396QQcategoryZ35558QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
If you poke around in the pictures you can see some of the flakey stuff that was done by whoever. Notice how the rear upper mount was handled though kind of miniture sub frame. I think that is where liberty was going to put a weld nut. There is no really great place to put either the upper front mount or upper rear. On the Cal car they made a sort of tiny sub frame to space out the load. I haven't figured out how to solve it myself. Maybe weld , maybe a better mini subframe, don't know.
Read this book from this site : http://www.sidecar.com/links3.asp "sidecar manual" it seems flexibility is last thing you want in a side car mounting system. Don't have any answers yet but I will let you know as I run across them.
Best of luck
Joe
Hi again Joe-
Have you been on the Liberty site? www.libertysidecars.com or if you go to the home page here then you can go to all sorts of links. But I think the Liberty has just the suspension you're looking for...
Good luck!
I did make it to the liberty site. They are really nice cars. Someday if I and when I get hooked on sidecars I would like to own one. I am a physical mess right now as I am waiting bylateral shoulder surgery as well as knee surgery. I will be laid up in one form or another for at least 10 monthes thanks to the way workmans comp handles things in the State of Washington. Hence I will be the monkey in the side car. There is no way I can get in or out of a car constructed like a Liberty. I'd feel pretty bad taking a new Liberty home and having the wife attack it with a sawazall. Plus it might arouse some ill feeling when folks saw it at one of the meets. I owe it to Lonie at Northwest sidecar for getting me on track so far as meeting my disability needs. After talking to him it finally hit me that I was going to be looking for something pretty special in order for it to work for my physical abilities.
We are going to look at a used car this weekend. I won't feel as badly modifying it to meet my temporary disability.
Thanks for the reply,
joe
