Has anyone tried putting a 30 tooth pulley instead of the stock 32 tooth pulley on for more torque at low speed and a higher rpm in high gear? Does it work and what are the advantages and disadvantages. I have an 08 RoadGlide with TLE hack. Also is the stock clutch good enough for the hack or should it be upgraded?
Stock clutch is the same for sidecar rigs. There are after market replacements if you feel the need.
Many change transmission sprockets or go from US to international rear sprockets to adjust the rig to their needs, power or mileage.
Lonnie
Be careful on what brand pulley you run! I have seem many of the after market pulleys wear out quickly. All so you might have to change the belt? Have you thought about changing the compensating sprocket instead? Much easier to get to as all you have to do is pull your outer primary and the drive inside.
I have a friend that has been running a BIG Watsonian Cambridge side car on his 1988 FLHS he bought new and has over 200K on it and the stock items hold up well. In 200K he replaced his clutch plates once.
He has no problem with the stock gearing and is head from Macon, GA to Alaska and back on it with his son in the hack this month.
B-roadglide - 6/5/2010 6:01 PM
Has anyone tried putting a 30 tooth pulley instead of the stock 32 tooth pulley on for more torque at low speed and a higher rpm in high gear? Does it work and what are the advantages and disadvantages. I have an 08 RoadGlide with TLE hack. Also is the stock clutch good enough for the hack or should it be upgraded?
Gear changes are more difficult on the '08 models since they changed the insides of the primary and sprockets. 46u makes a good point. Some of the aftermarket sprockets for the countershoft area are low quality and will wear prematurely and take the belt with them. That's also true of some of the chromed up alloy rear sprockets that some folks use to get more bling.
One of the big disadvantages is that the electrical sensor or "pickoff" for the speedometer in in the transmission. Thus a reduction in teeth on the countrshaft sprocked will cause a commensurate increase in speedometer and odometer readiings. There are correction units for this but they are costly. (What isn't costly on motorcycles, in particular Harley-Davidsons. LOL).
My first choice would always be to change gearing at the primary. In that case, you would be forced to go aftermarket since HD didn't address the need to lower gearing for sidecars in the later models. They are mainly concerned with their two-wheeled trade and if you install a sidecar, you need to figure thiese things out for yourself.
With the advent of the six-speed transmission on newer Big Twins, I guess you could run in 5th gear and get by. Unfortunately, my 2004 Ultra was geared too high even for solo work when I got it. 3.15:1 would cause me to have to shift down to fourth gear below 60 mph to prevent lugging the engine. It's a five speed transmission.
I was fortunate in that some of the Evolution models had 3.37:1 gearing and I changed to an earlier front sprocket and clutch for about $300. One tooth less on the motor and one tooth more on the clutch and I used the same prmary chain. It's perfect gearing for sidecar use since I can get into high gear as low as 50 mph and still be dong 2,000 rpm which is my benchmark.
If I were you, I'd look for a way to get different gearing for the primary from the aftermarket. I think some companies have already done this. Make sure that the parts are all steel, no alloy. This is all the more promising since changing that countershaft sprocket is a daunting task.
Good luck! 🙂
I just put a Baker DD6 in mine but have not put the TLE on yet. No mater what gearing change you make you will have to recalibrate the speedometer. I got a recalibrate module for about $85 off eBay. I might end up when I put the TLE on going smaller on the motor sprocket. Before I do put the TLE on I am going to catch my lasts five states as a solo I am hoping in September. I have installed the rear sidecar mount, brake T, clutch cable and the 90 on the oil sending unit so far for the TLE.
Here is a Speedometer Calibrator for $69.95 shipped.
http://www.easternperformance.com/products.php?product=Biker%27s-Choice-Speedometer-Calibrator-for-Harley-%26-Custom-Motorcycles
Here is a link to the Andrews pulley page. Never used their pulleys but have used many of their other products for 30+ years. Their stuff has always been
good quality, sometimes much better quality than Harley's parts.
You can also call them to get your questions answered. I've always gotten great technical advice when I have called.
http://www.andrewsproducts.com/PDF_files/catalog/29_BeltPulleys.pdf
gnm are saying it is easier to change the motor and clutch gearing than to change the trans. pulley on a 08 Twin Cam?
B-roadglide - 6/12/2010 12:28 PM
gnm are saying it is easier to change the motor and clutch gearing than to change the trans. pulley on a 08 Twin Cam?
Well, I don't know the aftermarket for the '08's. If a one tooth smaller compensation sprocker (engine sprocket) were available, you could probably use the same primary chain. I do know that there are different length chains available in the aftermarket.
In general, assuming parts are available, it's always easier to change primary gearing on a Harley.
Changing the gearing on the rear belt and pulleys, however, is a miserable, thankless job on a Harley. If you need a different length belt, the whole swingarm has to come off, AFAIK. Furthermore, in the event that you ever were to break a belt, you would have to make sure that you had a spare available if you were using a non-standard length.
I was riding my rig this morning and I'm still glad that I was able to change gearing so easily on my 2004 model with stock parts. It still costs money, though. There is no free lunch when working on motorcycles.
GNM109 what tooth sprockets are you running on your motor sprocket and clutch now? I know when I had my 5 speed on my 02 Ultra fist gear was fine and I have been on many long trips packed to the MAX as a solo with out a problem.
46u - 6/12/2010 6:00 PM
GNM109 what tooth sprockets are you running on your motor sprocket and clutch now? I know when I had my 5 speed on my 02 Ultra fist gear was fine and I have been on many long trips packed to the MAX as a solo with out a problem.
Hi,
I changed to 3.37:1 gearing. That is, 24 tooth front sprocket and 37 tooth clutch basket. That way, I used the same front chain since the number of teeth remained the same. The parts are all stock Harley-Davidson and it cost something like $300 for the two pieces from Zanottis.
As you probably know, the stock 2004 Ultra was 3.15:1 with 25 tooth motor and 36 tooth clutch basket. I'm not sure but some of the T.C.'s had the lower gearing and the later ones were the higher. The '08's and later are muich higher gearing, something in the 2's. That's no good for a sidecar unless you run in 5th gear on a 6 speed. The low gear is still too high for comfort.
With the stock 88" engine, the gearing I have is absolutely perfect. I tried it with the stock setup and it wouldn't work properly. I have no regrets.
Motor Sprocket P/N 40269-85A.
Clutch Shell P/N 37846-99A.
Thanks yes I new what was stock just was wondering what you are running now.
How do you figure out the gear ratio and how many teeth you need on front sprocket and how many teeth on clutch basket? It's an 08 RoadGlide twin cam.
B-roadglide - 6/13/2010 7:08 AM
How do you figure out the gear ratio and how many teeth you need on front sprocket and how many teeth on clutch basket? It's an 08 RoadGlide twin cam.
Hi,
That's a good question. I learned how to do that many years ago whe I was racing motorcycles. I actually learned this in high school math but since it didn't have anything to do with motorcycles. I basically forgot it until the need arose. LOL.
For example:
HD Primary Drive.
Take the number of teeth on the clutch and divide by the nmber of teeth on the engine sprocket.
Clutch = 37 and motor = 24 37/24 = 1.5416
HD rear wheel (belt) drive:
Countershaft pulley = 32 and Rear wheel pulley = 70 70/32 = 2.1875
Then multiply the two resulting ratios: 1.5416 X 2.1875 =3,37225 ( 3.37 )
So the formula is clutch diivided by motor times rear wheel divided by countershaft. This also works for shaft-driven bikes. All you need is the number of teeth on the ring and pinion gears.
On machines with gear-driven primary drive and shaft rear, say a Honda Shadow, a look in the service manual will tell you the number of teeth on the motor gear and the number of teeth on the drive gear and then you can figure it out. Unfortunately, it's virtually impossible to change gearing on those machines since there's no element that can be varied. Minor changes might be effectuated with a different dize rear tire but for sidecar use, probably the last thing you would want would be a smaller rear tire to lower the ratio.
It can also get confusing when the machine has an overdrive transmission, like for example the 1500 Gold Wing. those, IIRC, had an overdrive fifth gear that was about 0.86. Then you had to factor that against the rear shaft drive ratio, With a bike like that you need merely look in the service manual for the overall ratio, since you aren't going to be able to change the ratio anyway. LOL.
Fortunately, the Goldwing, which happens to be a favorite of mine, had so much torque that it really made a wonderful tug with no changes to the ratios. I owned a 1994 Goldwing 1500 SE and if it had been 3 inches lower and 200 pounds lighter, I'd still have it. With my weak left leg, it fell over a couple of times just trying to park it. A great bike, however and the size and weight would make little difference it it were to be used for a sidecar machine.
Hope this helps.
🙂
I go to Bakers web site and they have some very good information on gear ratios as well as about what RPM your engine will be turning. I have found that there are two different ways they rate gear ratios. The one like GNM109 is quoting which use to be the standard and now many use what is called Overall gear ratio. Here is a link that might help out. At the bottom of the link is a nice program called Launch the BAKER RPM vs. Speed Calculator
http://www.bakerdrivetrain.com/gearratios/index.htm
