timo482 - 1/8/2011 6:39 PM
some of the folks are thinking sort of backwords on the hd rollover switch
ALL recent dot approved bikes have a rollover switch - ALL of them, ALL makes, lay them down on there sides and they stop running, the electronics do the stopping, not fuel
the issue with a hd switch is that the factory switch on a bagger assumes that baggers never tilt more than 35 deg - so when it gets to 35 deg over the elect shuts off - [note that the hard parts of the frame hit the ground at 30 deg with a empty bike] keep the angle in mind
hd sidecar rigs prior to the twin cams really wont run more than 60 something loaded - in the era of 55mph speed limits, who cared. my 77 and my 79 would keep up with traffic and drove really nice.
new twin cams will go about 90. ive had mine to 90 - i can set the cruise control at 80 and it will hold - two up on the freeway - thats moving
with a passenger it IS possible to get the roll over switch that is in ALLLLLLLL hd bikes to trip in a corner loaded and shut off the power - though thank goodness its unlikely, very unlikely - it is possible.
so this switch that we are talking about turns the factory 35deg switch OFF and replaces it with a switch that only activates upside down
the idea is to keep the engine running if the rubber is down at all times.
putting a sidecar, ANY sidecar on a hd that has enough power to go 90 with the sidecar "may" cause the engine to shut off every so often... so it may be a good idea to spend the 115 bux and install the thing.
bikes newer than 11 will probably have no provision for the thing - but the trikes DO - in the future the plan will be to install trike parts on the bike to make it work right.
what would be the REALLY neat trick is to install a trike frame in a bike for sidecar use - all heavier tubing.
later
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There are two switches. One is the standard Bank Angle Sensor (BAS). That is controlled by a pendulum and is physically inside of the Turn Signal Security Module (TSSM). I don't mean to contradict, but according to my Electrical Diagnosctic Manal, the switch will shut off ignition control module (ICM/ECM) , fuel pump (EFI Models), turn signals and coil in the event that the vehicle tilts more than 45 degrees from vertical for more than one second. It will be easily reset once the bike is level again by simply cycling the ignition off and on before restarting.
The other switch is the rollover switch. This converts the shutoff to a complete 180 degee upside down.
For the BAS to be able to shut the engine off in a corner on a solo machine, it would require an extreme concentration of centrigugal force but remember, that pendulum is under the same forces as the bike and it would have to be able to move downwards against centrigugal force. This is highly unlikely and I suspect that it's been tested so as to ensure that this won't happen.
On the other hand, with a sidecar, I can see where the BAS pendulum could be moved enough to shut down in a tight corner. That's why they added the rollover switch, to prevent this.
If you ever remove your TSM or TSSM, you can hear the pendulum move when you move the unit left or right.
I suspect that you mean that all recent DOT approved bikes have been fitted with Bank Angle Sensors. That would certainly make sense. I know that the Goldwings have had them since 1988 and BMW has had them for some time. They probably started on the Harleys when HD initiated the EFI systems and fault codes on the big FL's.
The sad part is that the more stuff that they add, the less likely it will be that you will be able to work on your motorcycle. Cars reached that point back in the 1990's.
Happy Trails. 🙂
there is less and less i can work on
there are days when a magneto and carb and one wire to the lights and two wires to the turn signals is very appealing
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timo482 - 1/8/2011 10:21 PM
there is less and less i can work on
there are days when a magneto and carb and one wire to the lights and two wires to the turn signals is very appealing
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You can say that again. In that regard, I miss my old Harley 45's. I owned three of them at various times when I was a kid in Chicago. They were small, slow when stock but they were absolutely reliable and anyone with a crescent wrench and a straight screwdriver could fix one. Oh well.
gnm 109: "The sad part is that the more stuff that they add, the less likely it will be that you will be able to work on your motorcycle. Cars reached that point back in the 1990's. "
Actually things started to go to hell in 1968 when the EPA and NTSB pulled the companies out of racing and came up with ehaust air pumps, carb vented crankcase breathers, pc valves and such (to save the planet). Oh yeah, and not to mention the vast savings from the efficiency of Gasohol.
California and Oregon are still doing their best to make all motor vehicles undesirable and put us all on footback or the Bus.
Lonnie
Hack'n - 1/9/2011 9:39 AM
gnm 109: "The sad part is that the more stuff that they add, the less likely it will be that you will be able to work on your motorcycle. Cars reached that point back in the 1990's. "
Actually things started to go to hell in 1968 when the EPA and NTSB pulled the companies out of racing and came up with ehaust air pumps, carb vented crankcase breathers, pc valves and such (to save the planet). Oh yeah, and not to mention the vast savings from the efficiency of Gasohol.
California and Oregon are still doing their best to make all motor vehicles undesirable and put us all on footback or the Bus.Lonnie
I was referring to the commencement of digital fault codes to cars and motorcycles. Yeah, they started earlier but you could still do some work on your car. Nowadays, you have a hard time figuring out what's wrong.
Example: I just bought a 2010 HD touring Service Manual ($65. w/shpg.) thinking I was also getting some troubleshooting info.
First page of Troubleshooting, a note saysto refer to the Diagnostic Manual (another $65.00 w/shpg.).
In order to use this effectively one needs to buy more stuff.
Anyone want to buy an unused 2010 Harley Davidson Touring Model Electrical Diagnostic Manual (p/n 99497-10) for half price?
Lonnie
you need ALL the manuals to do full service
the main service manual will allow you to do most of the mech work
nobody seems to sell a working alternative to the digital tech & if they did it would cost 3 x 10k service price
more and more we are stuck w the dealer if any of the elect issues arise
and with the price of there factory rebuild service its really hard to redo a engine any more
*sigh*
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