Thanks Retro for the suggestions. Probably I should share a little more about Luke. He's 27 YO and has been with us for 18 years. His bio parents placed him it an institution when he was just 7. He's non-verbal and has very limited communication skills. All tests would indicate that he has severe mental retardation, but we know that he understands most/much of what is said to him. He's a little guy (probably because he weighed only 40# at 9 YO when he joined us) now he's 5'2" 110#.
He likes his hands free so he can watch what we call "twiddles." These are rubber bands or pieces of paper that he twirls.
If anyone has looked at the small heaters from Whitney's (Audiovox @ $27.99 and the "Adjustable" one @$15.99), what do you think? I've wondered if I would need another battery and alternator. Sadly, my wrenching skills are pretty limited, but Kurt Liehaber is nearby and my Suzi dealer has a young fellow who's always been good -- especially at electrical.
Anyway - thanks for sharing and caring.
Ron
I recommend a RV battery in the boot for several reasons. They are designed for long term drains, and can provide substantial amperage. Your motorcycle altenator may not provide the amperage needed to charge your bike battery run the headlamps and and heater at the same time.
But the RV battery should be able to supply juice for a few hours at medium draw.
In automotive use a 100 amp altenator is generally used when dealing with trailers that have electric brakes. Then there is the trailer battery which needs to be charged as well.
It would be the surge load and heavy drain on the electrical system from the heater that could shorten the life span of the motorcycle altenators windings and related electronics.
I don't try to explain vehicle electrical systems, as my older brother says its black magic and I am skilled in its ways. 😉 Yet depending upon the bike you have, the electrical system may be up to providing power for the heater. A mechanic with good electrical skills should be able to help you there.
Most vehicles use a 12 volt nominal electrical system. Yet the charging circuit is rated at 14 volts. 13.8 volts is the nominal charging voltage. Amperes and Watts are methods of measurement that are used in conjuction with volts to discern the vehicle's electrical capacity. Its easier to say that at 13.8 volts and 1 ampere you can fully charge a small car or large motorcycle battery in about six to eight hours time with no other loads.
The headlamps, tail lamps, turn signals, brake light, coil impedence are factored into the design criteria for the motorcycle. The combined draw meeasured in watts will give you a vehicle's minimum capacity requirements. Some manufacturers exceed the minimum requirements by about 10 - 15% to allow all parts to function. With a electric heater demanding far in excess of rated minimum capacity plus 10 - 15% you could deplete your motorcycle's electrical system at a rapid rate and find youself disable some place without support services.
Since I don't know how your motorcycle was designed and what electrical parameters were used; I suggested a very conservative way to meet your needs. Not the cheapest, but reasonably low maintenance. You would need to check the acid levels based on use, and top off with distilled water. deal with corrosion at the battery terminals. But this seems like it may be the easiest way to provide a souce of heat on demand.
I just don't try to get technical about vehicle electrics because it can take a while to explain.
Retro-rig
Thanks, again, Retro. Smiling here 'cause I'm glad you didn't get (more) technical since I wouldn't have understood anyway. Hmmmm topping up battery cells - is that going to be safe behind Luke. Wouldn't a sealed battery be better? Just wondering.
Ron
You have a point, I hadn't considered the newer generation of gel and sealed batteries. I know they are available for cars and trucks but I do not know if deep cycle batteries are available that way.
Most motorcycle batteries are wet cell, meaning they use liquid acid to function. We almost never consider them unless there is a problem with them. As long as Luke has no direct access, and the batteries can be secured in the tray I would hazard to say it is no problem.
But again batteries like many motorcycle components do need to be secured within the vehicle or onto the frame. Most RV batteries are placed into a tray and a cover is secured over the top of them in addition to being bolted down.
The difficulty would lay in getting the battery into the boot section and routing the cables so it would be accessable to swap out at the end of its service life.
I have had batteries fail on me. Boil overs being the more common problem where you need to contain the acid or vent gases off through a tube as on most motorcycle batteries. Battery explosions can occur but that is usually in the form of a case failure due to rapid gas build up. A battery explosion generally occurs due to a short circuit where the positive terminal grounds out or an internal failure within the battery itself. The internal failure being the least common occurance. When the case ruptures parts of the plastic case, lead, zinc components and acid are throw off. But for exception of the battery acid which can leak out most battery components are kept within the battery box or tray.
In almost 30 years experience with heavy trucks, cars and motorcycles, I have only had one battery explode; it had a frozen cell and there was an attempt to jump start the vehicle it was in. Two boiled off both were in the same truck when a part being installed fell and landed on the starter post creating a dead short to ground. And one vent liquid through the gas tube on my motorcycle, that destroyed the boots I was wearing that day.
Overall batteries are resonably safe, however most failures with them are due to user errors or motorvehicle accidents causing damage where batteries are located. Talk to your mechanic if you are the least bit wary about the idea and see how he'd recommend proceeding.
We have an Escort on our GL-1800 and I put a 120w Ceramic heater in it for the Heelers or the Wife whichever gets there first.
In your case 2 of those may help if you can aim them where he tends to keep his hands.
For less than $7 ea right now it would be inexpensive enough to try them.
For the Dogs I don't turn it on untill the temp is well below 32 and then I have the top snapped 2/3 shut to keep most of the heat in but allow the dogs to get their heads out on occasion.
Jerry
I agree with Retro above that rigging a secondary battery will help with electrical draw on your bikes alternator. The added current availability from an automotive battery will last longer and allow you to run a bit bigger heater. I've been looking for the same kind of thing for my wife (including the Jeep replacement seat from JCWhitney). I've run across a 12 Volt electric heater as big as 300 W max from a company in Japan. I did a search and found a 200 W one available at Amazon.com. They probably won't heat up the whole sidecar but if you put it at hand level, at least there would be some heat coming in around the hands. Good luck.
Thanks, once more, guys. I just returned from the Chicago Cycle Show and am getting to e-mail.
JS, just a word about the Whitney Jeep replacement seat - It is a VAST improvement in Luke ol' California hack. MUCH more comfortabe. In fact, Kurt Liebhaber was looking at it again last Sat. and was commenting how good it was and how he couldn't have one made for his custom hacks at such a reasonable cost. I took my rig down to Whitney in Utica with the old seat removed and they let me take a new seat out to the parking lot to see if it would fit. The fit was perfect.
Good luck!
Ron,
You may have already tried the auto type heaters. But I wonder if your hack has a grab rail that Luke holds onto? If so, what about a set of motorcycle or ATV grip heaters? There is a set made for ATVs that wrap around the grips with velcro, and plug in. They wouldn't use all that much juice, so would not tax your existing electrical system.
Good luck from a fellow foster care provider.
Nope - he won't hold onto a rail. He needs his hands free to look at his fingers or what we call "twiddles" - a rubber band or small pieces of paper. Thanks for the suggestion and good luck with your foster caring. Luke was our first and since he's been with us for 18 years now, guess he'll be the last too.
Ron
hi ron,
deep cycle marine batteries come in a sealed version. i always used an automotive battery on my gl1100/california 2 rig. i built bracket to hold it between the bike and the hack to alleviate concerns about acid spills and gasses from the charging process. i would not put a lead/acid in the luggage compartment.
my battery bracket is fairly crude, just a rectangle welded from angle iron. it is mounted on the rear lower sidecar mount with a stabilizer brace to the top right shock mount the battery is in a trolling motor battery case and held down by heavy duty bungies. kurt is one of the world's greatest welders and would fab you up something much more stylish than my efforts.
my next project is adding a big battery to my '98 motoguzzi EV/motorvation spyder rig. i want to be able to run a little refrigerator in the luggage area of the sidecar to keep my insulin cool. the spyder has no external frame so this is becoming a challenge. you can see a pic of the rig at www.wildguzzi.com on page 79 of the visitor's pictures area.
you and luke stay warm.
al collins
(dadbeem, on the west coast of illinois)
`
This is driving me nuts. Well, I'm used to brainstorming, so here's my wild hair; there are different thicknesses of plastic. Some, like that used in commercial reefer doors is really thick yet pliable for in and out traffic while keeping the cold in. I'm thinking of using something like this to make a sort of "tonneau cover" that zips up around his neck. This would keep the cold out (probably have a greenhouse affect) and yet let him look at his hands. If condensation gets too heavy for a good view of hands, you'll have a great place to start seedlings! Actually, I'm assuming the fit won't be that tight of a seal- underway a bit of wind would probably come in around the edges and vent up around his neck.
Hi Ron,
How about a combination of the 12v heater and something like a modified spray skirt from a kayak? Cut a window into the spray skirt and fill it with clear plastic so Luke can see his hands. The spray skirt will make a pretty good seal on the sidecar body and help the little heater work better.
Also, a few of the folks I met have used the 12v electric blanket that JCW sells in their RV catalog. Works a treat for keeping the lower body warm and might take the place of the ceramic heater.
Good Luck!
One more- what about fingerless gloves like climbers use? I don't know his condition, but he might love them more if you try regular gloves and let HIM cut the fingertips off- sense of accomplishment and all that.
Thanks guys -- you're getting pretty creative! I've tried the fingerless gloves and he took them off too. Actually, I had some concerns about them anyway. Aren't the fingers the first thing to experience frostbite?
Anyway, my leaning now is to bite the $$ bullet and have a new top made (which will protect him from the rain --- hey, but I'll still get wet) and possibly try having a heater installed too. I've got to get some wrenching skills so I don't have to pay people to do everything!
Thanks, again,
Ron_n_Luke
You might look at an VW catalog or JC Whitney and look at the oil cooler aux heaters. They have a oil line from the engine going to a small cooler with a fan that goes into the passenger compartment. These units use to be pretty reasonable in price.
