My wife and I had been thinking a long time about getting a sidecar rig, so that we could give our grand-daughter rides. On 6/14 I purchased a used rig that became available locally (an unbelievable coincidence, but that's another story). I've been reading up on all this (Hal Kendall's manuals), and find that there's a lot more to all this than I had known. I want to make this rig a dedicated sidecar rig (rather than a motorcycle with a sidecar attached), which the previous owner had not. So I'd appreciate any advice, especially from installers or the more experienced people out there.
The bike is a 2003 Moto Guzzi California EV Stone Touring. The side car is a Velorex 562. I am thinking that I'll get a Steerite modification of the triple clamps. The rig needs new tires all around, so I was thinking of getting automotive tires on the motorcycle (front and back). The Steerite people told me that that might not be possible with the rear wheel (they said that contrary to what you'd expect, 17-inch auto tires usually don't go on 17-inch motorcycle rims of the size on the rear of this motorcycle), but recommended getting a lower-priced motorcycle tire for the rear, as the stiffer rubber of such a tire, while it might not work as well for a 2-wheeler (that leans), will work better on a sidecar rig than a more expensive tire (because the more expensive tire would flex more-- an advantage for a 2-wheeler, but a disadvantage for a sidecar rig).
Any suggestions? Thanks. I look forward to more information.
We also make new from billet triple tree's for your bike. I know of no 17 inch tire that will fit on the EV as they tend to be to wide. The 562 is a real light sidecar, I would prefer to see a heavier stronger sidecar on the EV. I know of one person who was killed on an EV with a Velorex that had he had a heavier sidecar may have not had an accident. As you have the 562 make sure that it is running the 20mm axle and not the 15mm that older ones ran and always keep ballist in the sidecar. Check that the wheel lead is correct. I find on Velorex rigs due to the lack of adjustment for wheel lead that often they have way to much wheel lead. Make sure that you have proper mounts with good triangluation often with the "universal" type mounts that come with these sidecars this is not possible. If the sidecar still has the stock clamp around the frame for the lower rear you may want to weld it down as these tend to slip over time. We have built many Moto Guzzi rigs, both my wife and I are life members of the national club and our general manager rides a Convert and we offer the triple tree's and bike specific mounts for about a dozen different Guzzi bikes. We will not sell the EV mounts for use with the Velorex, we will for stronger heavier sidecars. We also offer mounts for Velorex sidecars to go on lighter bikes.
If you can post some photo's of your rigging or send me an email I would be glad to take a look.
The book "driving a sidecar outfit" which we sell for $34.95 is a good source of information, White horse press also offers this book. If you can take a sidecar class this is also a good idea www.esc.org
I will also be at the national rally and put on a seminar on mounting sidecars and any thing else any one wants to go over as I am also a sidecar instructor and have several hundred thousand miles on sidecar rigs.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
Jay: Thanks for your comments. I will certainly take a look at your website, and if (when) I get a chance, I may try to e-mail you some pictures of the rig. I was already figuring on keeping ballast in the rig; the day I bought it I rode it to a rental storage unit I have, and noticed that the sidecar was way lighter than I would have preferred. A couple of days later I took my wife for a ride in it, and noticed that the rig was much more manageable (no surprise there, I guess).
Jawa/Velorex has recommended up to 100# of ballast with their cars when no passenger is present. Placed in the trunk or attached to the frame.
The weight range of the cars is from 154# for the early 562E model and up to 180# for the 565 Tour.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
Lonnie: Only 100 pounds of ballast in the absence of a passenger? I had planned on more. The plate on my sidecar says the max payload is 105 kg, which would be 231 pounds. I was thinking of buying 8 bags of lead shot (like I use for my shot shell reloads); each bag weighs 25 pounds. And I thought I'd put 2 of those bags into each of 4 different canvas bags. My thought was that I can use those bags of shot to "titrate" the weight in the sidecar, so that no matter what my passenger's weight was, I could have about 200 pounds total payload in the car, to try to make the handling as consistent as possible. (I figured I'd put those bags of ballast in the trunk, to minimize how much they could shift around.) If my thoughts here are hare-brained or dangerous, please feel free to let me know; my goal is safety.
Some things to keep in mind. With the ballist are you going to over load the suspesion and axle on the sidecar?
How much ballist is needed also depends on how wide the sidecar is mounted. Your comfort leval and how heavy you are.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
The 100# figure was addressed to the early model 562, 562E and 700 models with non-adjustable suspension and the 15mm axle. These were designed for use with the 350cc & 500cc Jawa motorcycles. The later Cruiser and Tour model Velorexs have adjustable suspension with a larger axle and all models except the 562 have wider wheels and larger tires. They are designed to work well with the middleweight cruiser bikes that are so popular now.
A good weight balance ratio is still 2/3rds on the bike tires to 1/3rd on the sidecar tire.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
This brings up a question: where do I take the measurement for the axle diameter? Is the axle exposed, or is it shrouded? (I'm out of town now, so can't just look at the bike to tell.)
As for the weight, here's another question: the "2/3 bike, 1/3 sidecar" means, I assume, 2/3 or 1/3 of the TOTAL weight of the rig, correct? (That is, bike with all fluids on board, rider, passenger, sidecar, mount, and any other cargo.)
What I had intended to do with the bags of lead shot is, again, "titrate" the weight in the sidecar. That's "titrate" in the sense of chemistry: if I have a 100-lb passenger, I leave only 4 bags of shot (25 lbs each) in the sidecar, but if I have a 200-lb passenger, I leave all the bags of shot behind. (And I have 200 lbs of ballast if I ride the bike without a passenger or any other cargo, such as if I get a chance to ride to somewhere where I can take the sidecar course, which I'd like to do.) I'm not looking to get the weight EXACTLY the same at all times, just within plus or minus 25 pounds (up to the max of 200), which I figure is more than close enough for this application.
One way to check if you have enough weight is to stand on the left foot peg while off the bike and lean back. The sidecar should not come up easy.
In general I do not like the 1/3 rule as it does not take into acount how wide the rig is mounted and where the weight is. More weight as far out side as possible near the wheel does a lot more then the same amount near the bike.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
866-638-1793
Movement of the ballast weight will change the balance ratio of the rig. Farther away from the bike will add weight to the sidecr wheel and subtract weight from the bike side.
The width of the rig doesn't matter. I agree about turning the wheel to the right and standing on the left footrest while pulling back. This is an "Old school" method of checkking stability.
Lonnie
The width does make a huge difference. If the wheel and tire are out further they, they have more weight further out and as such help hold the entire rig down more.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
Read my post. The subject was ballast. Movement of the ballast outboard will add weight to the sidecar wheel. Regardless of how wide the rig is.
Physics is physics.
Happy trails,
Lonnie
Yes, and having the rig wider, the ballist can also be out further from the bike and as such rig width makes a big difference. Physics is physics
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
I couldn't agree more: physics is physics. And I think the same thing is being said in two different ways. That is: on the one hand, if the distance of the sidecar from the motorcycle remains constant, but the ballast moves, within the sidecar but away from the motorcycle, then the effect of the ballast is greater (more weight further out on the lever arm); on the other hand, if the location of the ballast within the sidecar is unchanged, but the sidecar is moved further away from the sidecar, then again, the effect of the ballast is greater (again, more weight further out on the lever arm). Or as Archimedes put it when he figured out the principle of the lever, "Give me a place to stand and I will move the world." (I bet you didn't know Archimedes had a sidecar, didja?)
Besides, I wouldn't want to try to argue sidecars with either Lonnie or JayG.
Again, thanks for all the input. This is really helpful to me. But again, where would I measure the diameter of the axle?
If your 562 swingarm looks like the attached wheel and swingarm pic you have the 20mm axle and a wider wheel (still uses the 3.50x16 Mitas sidecar tire).
The 2nd pic shows the early swingarms with OEM 15mm axle on the left and a modified one with a 3/4" Harley axle on the right.
The 3rd pic shows my propriatory heavy duty swingarm kit with 1" axle for heavier bikes, heavy loading and off road usage.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
