Claude covered all the details quite nicely. The bottom line is that we modify the bike to improve handling and reliability. I did weld up a second (solo trail) pivot position on the swing arm of the Unit fork on my old R100/Ural rig. It allowed me to have sidecar trail with the hack mounted, and solo trail with the sidecar removed. The link actually handled better than the stock telescopic fork, but steering was slower because of the increased mass. And the bottom line was that I seldom made the swap except for emergencies. It's so much nicer to have a sidecar outfit AND a two wheeler. (OK, maybe several two wheelers)
I agree with others about the "advantages" of a seatbelt. Adults who understand what's happening will realize that you can't depend on a seatbelt to protect you. You have to depend on avoiding the smasho. But kids tend to get bored and start wiggling around. On one trip the 9 year old daughter of a riding friend asked if she could ride in my sidecar. She seemed to enjoy it. But after 50 miles or so, I glanced down to see how she was doing, and SHE WAS GONE! I almost had heart failure. Then I saw one of her shoes. She had crawled down into the toe of the sidecar to see what was down there.
The message: when carrying children, strap them in position with a seat belt. Large fender washers or a metal reinforcing plate on the back side of a plastic panel will provide enough strength to hold it in position. The seat belt also provides a measure of assurance to any child's worried parent. To find a seatbelt, head for your nearest auto wrecker. The back seat belts of late model foreign cars are usually in great shape. You can usually unbolt the belt fittings from the vehicle floor.
pmdave
Hey Folks;
Thanks much for the info....and I agree completely with the sentiment that more 'smiles per mile' rules. That's why we have bikes in the first place!
I will go with the fork brace, for that's an improvement even for the bike ridden solo. I will weld a couple of seat-belt anchors to the frame as well (situated at the proper position of course), and if in use we find the need for the seat belt, or the sense of security a seat belt gives, it will be easy enough to add. I feel anchoring the seat belt to the fiberglass alone could lead to a false sense of security, and I'd like to avoid that.
I'm very safety conscious, and have in fact some time ago, increase my following distance from the 2 second rule, to 4 seconds or better. Of course, sometimes that's dependent upon what and/or who's tail-gating me. I've even been known to pull onto the shoulder in order to let a questionable traffic situation pass by....and I never leave home on a bike with a limited time frame; that is, I simply don't hurry when I'm on a bike (that's not to say I don't go fast....just that I don't hurry, and there is a difference). Too much at stake, too many cage drivers talking on cell phones, drinking coffee, changing cd's and so on. Call me crazy if you like, but call me safety minded too....
I slipped by Hannigan's today (my sidecar is a Hannigan) and peeked through the windows to his showroom. I wanted to see if my set-up seemed on a par with his. Shucks, I saw a Gold Wing/sidecar outfit that had only three attachment points....and mine has four. And not only so, but Hannigan isn't the least bit hesitant to use the tube-clamp/bar device if need be; he has a Harley outfit set up that way as well. I feel all of my connections are at least up to what he would have done....actually, he tells me they've never put one of their sidecars on a Concours (and in fact, offered me a bit of a 'cut-rate' to install my sidecar, so they could design jigs for future installations. I'm a d-i-y'er though and declined). Anyhow, I'm pretty confident my set-up will stand the test of time and force.
So again, thanks for your input. I'm in your debt.
Sahagan
My harley rig has 4 attachments points with the liberty classic sidecar.
Smiles per mile !!!!! That's a classic.
I think Dave's suggestions were good concerning the seatbelt attachment points.
To do a belt system that is really going to go the distance in a real crash it would take a lot more doing than hooking the belts to the sidecar frame.Keep in mind that the sidecar seat is most likely bolted to the fiberglass body...keep in mind that the body is probably held to the frame with four or so bolts. Where is the weak point? It probably will not be the seat belt if it is attached to the frame but it could be the body mounts or the seat mounts. If we consider the result of the possible scenario related to this we may see that our warm and secure feelings are unfounded.
Years back I saw a guy who built a stock car out of a uni body camaro. The belts were attached to the floorboards with very large homemade 'washers' to distribute the load. The seat was attached to the floorboards in a similar manner but was also attached to the rollcage. Well when he crashed this thing really hard the rollcage moved and the seatbelts stayed where they were... you can imagine the results..this guy was in a world of hurt.
I think if we were to try and mount belts in a sidecar that were going to do the best service for us in a crash they would have to be mounted to a rollbar structure along with the seat. This way even if the body disentigrated around the passenger he or she would still be held in place. A rollcage would be better yet.
With all of that being said I think that if someone wishes to intall belts as a means to secure the kids it can be done the way Dave mentioned. To make a sidecar as safe as possible in a real crash other means would have to be taken.
The three point mounts you saw on the Hannigan were probably due to the old style electric lean device being mounted. In essence the top mount is an electric actuator device that shortens or lengthens at the push of a button. The bottom mounts allow the bike to pivot around them as the lean device is utilized. This setup works great. Down at Buena Vista in 2002 we went for a ride on some of the roads arond the blueridge parkway. Colby and I were on our rigs both with Motorvation Formula II sidecars.Gene Crockett was on his 1500 Wing/Hannigan that had an electric lean on it. It was all we could do to keep up with him !! I had the chair in the air, was sliding around lefts and even rights in some cases while Gene and his wife just tooled along like they were on a sunday ride listening to their radio.(and yes Dave I was hanging off as much as hanging on..lol) Later on I took Gene's rig for a ride and was really impressed with it. Colby liked it so much he went out and bought one.
The downside of these devices is that if there was ever an electrical failure at the wrong time you may end up in the weeds.
Sorry for rambling,
Claude
Hi, I'm running a GL1000 & velorex, how far can a person slide the forks up without hitting the raditor or other parts?
Our old GL1000/Watsonian Palma was an enjoyable out foit for us. It had progressive shocks on the rear that had the short springs removed which lowered it about 2" or more. I slid the front forks up thru the triple trees enough to even things out and then re-setup the sidecar. Pretty racey looking it was..a stripped wing , low bars, bmw seat...lean and low. Took it out for a spin over to my buddie's motorcycle shop...man it sure handled different...impressed! Well upon pulling into the bike shop and shutting it off the steam came up from the front of the engine...yep...busted radiator. So..how much is too much? It may depend some on how stiff your front springs are but I can tell you that mine with progressive fork spings in the front would not work at being lowered 2"..I think it ended up with about an inch and a quarter. I hate to say that is good or bad because there are other factors to consider. If it has a full fairing that would enough weight to make a difference. Weight of rider and sidecar would also make a difference I would think. So...procede with caution may be the best solution. It was a little embarrasing to pull up to the shop in a cloud of steam created by my own ignorance 🙂
Do not keep them for safety. If the sidecar is involved in a major accident I feel fiberglass sidecar would probably millions of copies, so there is no advantage to stay in the car.
I strongly recommend using a regular motorcycle tire on the front. My rig came with a Metzeler flat-tread tire on the front -- supposedly a very good tire. But twice when I needed serious stopping power the front tire skidded, the rig shot to the left, and I ended up in the opposite, oncoming lane!!! Only dumb luck saved me from a head-on collision. Had there been oncoming traffic it would have been all over.
I replaced the front with a Dunlop D404 -- a middling good motorcycle tire. The difference was major. Under maximum braking the rig stayed straight, with impressive stopping power. If I jammed on the brakes hard enough to lock up the front wheel (not easy) the rig did pull left, but not so hard that I couldn't recover.
Safe emergency handling trumps any concerns about dollars per mile. One serious wreck will pay for a whole barnful of tires.
Best,
Ed Bianchi
'87 BMW K75C/Dauntless "Lady Carol"
