Originally written by claude #3563 on 8/13/2007 7:41 PM
Skiri,
If you aren't stuck on keeping the Beezer original you coudl possibly swap out the whole fork assembly for a dual disc setup off of a whatever. I do not know what may or may not work but these types of swaps can work well and even reduce the trail for easier steering if you want to really do some exploring.
Actually you may be able to get mroe out of your drum setupo with a a little tweaking. Drums have goitten a bad rap from some but when setup right they can work quite well. Brake fade can be an issue on some and inconsistancies can surface when in the wet but usually they can be setup to work pretty darn good under normal riding circustances.
I subscribe to BritBike forum and have seen that kind of dual disk conversions. But then I want to dynamically balance the crank, polish the rods, etc.
I have also read about setting up the drum brake. They say it can lock up the front wheel. I aligned the shoe to the drum by attaching sandpaper to the drum inner surface and rotate. It made a slight improvement but my drum inner surface was scored badly and I didn't re-surface it.
I have been very cheap on the BSA. I was not sure I could resurrect it successfully so I didn't spend much. It was my very first engine rebuild attempt. It will need softer linings also (again I kept the original. it must be very hard after 25 years..)
As I said, I already started this free leaner thing so I will finish it before trying others. I will make sure the mods to the Velorex is reversible.
Hello to all the old riders here. I'm just new here, so a little patience may be rquired from an old cowboy. In the old days when I had a 68 Triumph 500 T 100S I lowered the gearing for more go with a smaller counter shaft sproket by one tooth. It increased the revs but the old tumpet handled it well for 80,000 plus miles with a HEAVY Watsonian Monaco. From there it went to a 1970 650 Bonneville and I also changed the counter shaft sprocket for more revs. It finally got its rest with a Honda 750/4 that was a screamer just the way it was, but I seem to remeber changing the rear sproket up a few teeth to keep it in its power band. I always told the new riders to put 100 pounds in the combination and every week lighten it by 10 pounds until you feel secure with very lttle ballast. I just rode back from Penns Creek with my NEW(OLD 67-68) Watsonian Palma. I did road speed all the way with no problem on a new 2007 Harley 883 Custom. There is no real restrictions on going a "little" slower than the posted speed within reason especially in the twisties and switch backs, just going over, Smokey likes hiding in the bushes to give tickets..Quota thing ya know.. So, put in the ballast, and lighten it every week or so until you feel comfortable..Eventually it will have little or no ballast.. Also there are good box units for a sidecar for carrying any type of gear and you can also mount stuff on a top roof rack on the box unit like a conoe, Kayak etc, just ask Claude.... Oh Claude, the mail boxes I collected from Penns Creek are coming soon. Hahahahaha, have a good week bud..The wood will burn good this winter but I guess the people would like their mail eh!! Manitoba Manny
I don't consider myself an expert on the subject of a leaner rig but I did build one and can probably answer some questions you might have. Having ridden both styles of rigs ('97 Ural) I most certainly prefer the articulated setup. Ural sidecar, Victory motorcycle. The motorcycle rides like a motorcycle, uses standard motorcycle tires. Takes about 5 minutes to install the sidecar and about two minutes to disconnect it. The bike has dual use. The learning curve is much easier. If you already know how to ride a motorcycle you pretty well already know how to ride an articulated rig. Minor accel/decel handling changes as you would guess but any experianced rider could handle it. One handed operation is usually plenty.
Sidecar is mounted as low and as close to the bike as I could in order to get necessary lean angle on righthanders and minimize accel/decel influence. Front mount is lightly higher than rear mount. The mount is also about 3 inches to the right of centerline so that some of sidecar's weight counters the left lean that occures from the sidecar's drag. Would like to experiment more with steering geometry and height of front pivoting mount location but oil cooler is in the way and things are working pretty well where they are. The 2 biggest drawback I see is right hand lean angle is not quite enough for real tight turns (as exhaust currently bottoms out against frame) Sometimes have to use some body "English" on a fast and tight righthander. And low ground clearance means I can no longer go off roading like I did with the Ural. And of course there is no longer a reverse gear. But a two hundred mile day is now an average ride. Thats something I never did try on the Ural.
Roy
Originally written by Manitoba Manny on 8/19/2007 11:53 AM
I always told the new riders to put 100 pounds in the combination and every week lighten it by 10 pounds until you feel secure with very lttle ballast. >>>>>>>> So, put in the ballast, and lighten it every week or so until you feel comfortable..Eventually it will have little or no ballast..
Why are so many riders obsessed with getting rid of their ballast?
leave it in!! It can only help, not hinder , keeping your rig on the pavement, with no need of the so called 'Arse' hanging over the seat on the turns.
bikes and brakes nowadays are more than adequate to handle an extra 50-75 pounds of ballast full time..passenger or not.
My old /5 beemer with drums handles it fine.
maybe its some kind of 'macho ' thing?
I can take city street corners at 20 MPH just sitting upright. right or left.
in the twistys I have to slow down for the 2 wheelers in front of me.
and I'm only 67!!
Originally written by Bob in Wis on 8/28/2007 2:06 AM
Originally written by Manitoba Manny on 8/19/2007 11:53 AM
I always told the new riders to put 100 pounds in the combination and every week lighten it by 10 pounds until you feel secure with very lttle ballast. >>>>>>>> So, put in the ballast, and lighten it every week or so until you feel comfortable..Eventually it will have little or no ballast..
Why are so many riders obsessed with getting rid of their ballast?
leave it in!! It can only help, not hinder , keeping your rig on the pavement, with no need of the so called 'Arse' hanging over the seat on the turns.
bikes and brakes nowadays are more than adequate to handle an extra 50-75 pounds of ballast full time..passenger or not.
My old /5 beemer with drums handles it fine.
maybe its some kind of 'macho ' thing?
I can take city street corners at 20 MPH just sitting upright. right or left.
in the twistys I have to slow down for the 2 wheelers in front of me.
and I'm only 67!!
I agree that the ballast should stay in. I have about 50# of ballast in my HD sidecar frame. It's bolted on and I leave it there. It actually improves handling. The machine is much more stable with it.
Also there seems to be a preoccupation with "flying the chair". Fine for practice and bad for riding. Enough of flying the chair and removing ballast. I say keep your wheels on the ground and leave the ballast in!
Originally written by uralsharps on 8/27/2007 7:47 PM
Front mount is lightly higher than rear mount. The mount is also about 3 inches to the right of centerline so that some of sidecar's weight counters the left lean that occures from the sidecar's drag.
Roy
Thanks for the info!
I finished the design and about to go to the welder.
I made a provision to change front/rear height difference but boths pivot points are on the centerline right now.
So both front/rear pivots should be off center or just front?
I have a similar lean angle restriction. I wish I live in UK or Oz. Then I mount the sidecar on the left and 3-into-1 header solves pipe to the frame interference.
Why no one makes 3-into-1 or 4-into-one headers with muffler on the left???
try and get the front and rear mounts where they attach to the bike as equal as possible in height from the floor.
this will make setting the toe-in easier. if one mount is higher than the other, when you lean the bike in or out the toe-in will change.
you can see this by setting a straight edge along your SC wheel and lean the bike in or out more...you will see that the wheel turns in or out. changing the toe-in setting.
I thought the tow-in was what we were trying to vary by mounting the front slightly higher? so the car would assist turning?
on a completely side note, I have not been following this thread nearly as closely as I was, since I just joined that BritBike forum and an A7 A10 forum as well! I bought a "package deal" on craigslist last week...
BSA A10 either super rocket or spitfire scrambler, 58 or 59?
Shot at 2007-08-22
72 BSA A65 Lightning
Shot at 2007-08-22
triumph triple something frame
Shot at 2007-08-22
I doubt I'll try to hack this one, but it's certainly enough to keep me occupied for a while... I probably paid top dollar for it all, but hopefully with a little TLC I can either have a great bike, or at least get back what I paid easily... already replaced the plug wires and got spark from the magneto, it had had a carb fire that toasted all the wiring and hoses near the engine. ask me how I know that... 😉
skiri, are you skiri on britbike too?
Originally written by snowbeard on 8/28/2007 12:59 PM
I thought the tow-in was what we were trying to vary by mounting the front slightly higher? so the car would assist turning?
the toe-in is adjusted completely separate from the lean adjustment,by moving the front or rear of the lower SC mounts further or closer to the bike. a good measurement is 1/4 to 1/2 " narrower in front of the front wheel compared to back of the rear wheel measurement.
first thing to do is get the rig level, with you sitting on it. then set the toe-in. after toe-in is set, adjust the lean in or out . whatever you need to track straight at the normal speed you travel..60-65, on a level road, nueteral throttle.
after proper lean is found, check your toe in again..it might have changed from the lean in/out.
minor adjustments might be needed to get it set right.
the toe-in setting changes wont make the steering lighter .it WILL make a big difference in tire wear. if it is way off, you can waste a rear tire in 1000 miles or less.
front wheel TRAIL changes will affect the steering. some get a little help by sliding the front forks up higher into the tripple clamps... IE.. dropping the front bike frame lower in the triple clamps.
this moves the front wheel to the rear slightly, making steering a little lighter.
After studying pics and videos on ARMECs site it looks to me like they locate the front mount higher than the front on the articulated rigs. This would automaticly change the toe geometry as the bike leans. The sidecar wheel would point more towards its direction of travel rather than straight ahead. However, how much is not enough vs how much is too much? I don't know the answer. Too much might cause the bike to resist returning to vertical after a turn. Maybe? In other words would the sidecar over-influence the bikes steering characteristics? I felt that keeping the mounting points low would give the bike the mechanical advantage. Staying close to the tires' contact patch should induce less steering influence from the car, I think. If mounted high up the downtube it seems the sidecar would tend to push the bike around excessivly. I'm sure there is a "sweet spot", where everything would balance out if one could find it.
Moving the front mount off center was a change from the first set-up. Only the front was moved as a prelimiary test and it helped quite a bit and was eazy to do. Drilled one hole. Rear mount would need some welding and fabricating so I might try it "someday" but I'm in no hurry as things are working quite well as it is.
Roy
one of my thoughts on this was to create the front mount with a myriad of hole placements, so that it might resemble a parcheesi board. I saw a post from another member who had made a few holes to play with. maybe ten holes up and down an inch or so apart, and now, with this new idea of offsetting the weight, maybe three sets of ten up and down so that you can experiment without having to rebuild the entire mount?
also, I would have a system in place on the hiem joint to allow the arm of the joint to be adjusted in length, which would set the tow-in initially, and the lean would make it turn? if too much you could try a lower front mount? probably even have the lowest one even with the rear to assess the characteristics of that mount as well?
when I get to it, that is...
Originally written by snowbeard on 8/28/2007 9:59 AM
on a completely side note, I have not been following this thread nearly as closely as I was, since I just joined that BritBike forum and an A7 A10 forum as well! I bought a "package deal" on craigslist last week...
BSA A10 either super rocket or spitfire scrambler, 58 or 59?
72 BSA A65 Lightning
triumph triple something frame
I doubt I'll try to hack this one, but it's certainly enough to keep me occupied for a while... I probably paid top dollar for it all, but hopefully with a little TLC I can either have a great bike, or at least get back what I paid easily... already replaced the plug wires and got spark from the magneto, it had had a carb fire that toasted all the wiring and hoses near the engine. ask me how I know that... 😉
skiri, are you skiri on britbike too?
Yes, I am.
You got all of them!
For how much?
Now I am jealous.
A10 looks to have unit construction engine.. I think it's more later model than '58, '59??
[Edit: I take it back. It's not a unit twin so maybe from '58, '59..]
'72 one looks to me a Thunderbolt (single carb) not Lightening (twin carb) but the gas tank may not be the original (pre-71..).
You will definately get more accurate answers from the expert BritBike forum members.
But I am afraid you may need more than a little TLC...
A10 looks complete though..
should've shared both sides...
Shot at 2007-08-22
still trying to decide exactly what it is, it was sold as a 59 super rocket, but I believe it may be a 58 spitfire scrambler?
Thanks uralsharps.
I still don't understand though..
You need to lean the bike to the left to counter the drag from the sidecar, correct?
By offsetting pivot point to the right, sidecar's weight makes the bike to lean right.. Doesn't that make your lean left effort more?
Originally written by snowbeard on 8/28/2007 12:34 PM
one of my thoughts on this was to create the front mount with a myriad of hole placements, so that it might resemble a parcheesi board. I saw a post from another member who had made a few holes to play with. maybe ten holes up and down an inch or so apart, and now, with this new idea of offsetting the weight, maybe three sets of ten up and down so that you can experiment without having to rebuild the entire mount?
also, I would have a system in place on the hiem joint to allow the arm of the joint to be adjusted in length, which would set the tow-in initially, and the lean would make it turn? if too much you could try a lower front mount? probably even have the lowest one even with the rear to assess the characteristics of that mount as well?
when I get to it, that is...
I will adapt this "peg board" idea also.
Bob:
We are talking about articulated rigs here.. just in case.
