Hello all,
I am a newbie here, and completely uninitiated in the world of sidecars.
I got an old '81 Suzuki GS650G about five years back for free (with my labor to get it running of course). It's been great for 15K+ miles now and I love to ride. I also have a GS850L that is in the works, but would likely be better for hauling. It's a good thing I waited until I was at least 30 because previously I couldn't keep four wheels on the ground. I like to think(hope) I'm older and wiser now.
That leads me to my latest and greatest idea (which may disprove my previous statement)!! I am an outdoorsman and ski, bike (mtn), kayak, etc. most any time, but motorcycling seems to interfere with these hobbies, as I cannot take it all with me.
I have figured out the mtn bike, but I think I'll drive a car to ski ';-)
but I would really like to be able to take my kayak and camping gear on overnight trips. I have considered both a sidecar rig and a trailer, but I think the sidecar would be my preference. My plan, as it now stands, would be to create or buy a frame without the actual body. I would use that to strap the kayak and duffel on, not to carry passengers, just to get where I want to be?!
SO, my questions would be,
what might be a good frame to look for,
and how would I best acheive the tilting sort, one which I could still lean the bike in a curve (sorry, I don't know the correct terminology here)
If you have any advice, or perhaps an unused chasis, please feel free to share!! I thank you in advance.
I live in Colorado, by the way, just in case any of you are neighbors!
Well why not, sounds like fun, I think you would need a special trailer for the kayak unless it's one of those shorties used in rapids, you can put a Whole Bunch of stuff in a sidecar, with a little designing the trailer could hold the kayak and bike, now how cool would that be.
I have used my sidecar for skiing before, thats easy. I also use it to install custom fire screens. This rack could easily handle a kayak with a mountain bike beside it.
wow, that looks like it would go anywhere! I like the older military-ish look. maybe a dedicated rig would be worthwhile. it might be a decent way to make my 850 safer too, and skiing would be fun 😉
but I think what I'm thinking about would be a vastly trimmed down version of a sidecar. maybe even just that rack on a wheel!
how much could one get away with, maybe a beam perpendicular to the bike that has the wheel and a supporting member or two fore and aft? what sort of stability problems do you encounter with a flexible sidecar? would they be less if it were very light, sub 150 lbs? does anyone have a good explanation of how they articulate?
like I said I wouldn't intend to use it for people and would probably want to be able to remove it relatively easily.
thasnks alot for the information!
Hello Snowbeard,
as you I used, the sidecar a and the singles for to pull a Dingy
(bike, Tandem, ski, rubberboat, fishing takle) + 7 home movements...
the easiest was the sidecar.
You are heading into snow and mountains and a tilting bike would cause trouble, a stiff one cause great fun.
I would recommend a sidecar with stiff frame and a fibreglas boat that is seperate frome the 3. wheel cover, so you can take it off easyly, takeing off just a few scews, leaving the wheel cover and electric cables mounted. And then you build your own subframe, where you just strap on the Kajak, surfboard or what ever and in winter you put the sidecar and you partner will be happy. a holder is good enough for the ski.
Regards from a german windface in Costa Rica.
Sven Peter Pan
Snow, stick to a solid non-tilting rig for your off road/snow stuff. also, mount a full SC,like Mark did, or a wood utility box on it .
you have to remember, you need a good weighted SC frame to keep it down on the road. An empty frame will lift immidiately with no weight on it. It will need over 100 pounds of ballast permanently to ride it safely.
y'know, I really don't plan to use this in the mountains during the winter, I can drive my 4wheeldrive subaru if I need it, t'would only be a fluke if I took a rig skiiing (I say now).
My real purpose is the kayak trips, and it is a whitewater kayak, sorry I left out crucial information ';-) only about six feet long, give or take a few inches. boat is 30 lbs, another ten of gear. camping stuff can get upwards of 50lbs, if I'm not backpacking, who cares, eh? so there's the weight right there, if I made a substantial frame and wheel it would likely be fifty lbs easy...
but the reason for taking the bike is also the feel of the ride? I think I'm rather set on either a flex car or the trailer so I can still enjoy the curves to their full extent (no offense intended).
I'm a creative sort, maybe I can create it so that there's a bar to attach at will, transforming it from a flex to a rigid? (this is why I started out with the whole newbie disclaimer, I know I'm stirring the pot but I'm really serious)
I guess the other crucial piece of info is that I'm a cheap SOB. But I live in an area that has so much to offer, there is a lot going on in Boulder on so many fronts, so much excess that things trickle down to the point I find things like shiny new whole weedeaters that run in the recycling bins. wasteful things like that. so if I know what i need to be looking for, I could likely build this up for a song and a sixpack.
Originally written by snowbeard on 7/17/2007 12:50 PM
y'know, I really don't plan to use this in the mountains during the winter, I can drive my 4wheeldrive subaru if I need it, t'would only be a fluke if I took a rig skiiing (I say now).
My real purpose is the kayak trips, and it is a whitewater kayak, sorry I left out crucial information ';-) only about six feet long, give or take a few inches. boat is 30 lbs, another ten of gear. camping stuff can get upwards of 50lbs, if I'm not backpacking, who cares, eh? so there's the weight right there, if I made a substantial frame and wheel it would likely be fifty lbs easy...
but the reason for taking the bike is also the feel of the ride? I think I'm rather set on either a flex car or the trailer so I can still enjoy the curves to their full extent (no offense intended).
I'm a creative sort, maybe I can create it so that there's a bar to attach at will, transforming it from a flex to a rigid? (this is why I started out with the whole newbie disclaimer, I know I'm stirring the pot but I'm really serious)
I guess the other crucial piece of info is that I'm a cheap SOB. But I live in an area that has so much to offer, there is a lot going on in Boulder on so many fronts, so much excess that things trickle down to the point I find things like shiny new whole weedeaters that run in the recycling bins. wasteful things like that. so if I know what i need to be looking for, I could likely build this up for a song and a sixpack.
the weight of the SC frame is a critical thing.
a good rule of thumb is, the SC, with it s normal load, without the Kayak,or passenger, should weigh at least 1/3 of the bike. this includes your weight on the bike also.
IE, a 600 pound bike and rider should have at least a 200 pound SC [or frame with weights attached]
remember, you will be riding this without the kayak or camping stuff on it to town or around the camp area, so it must have the weight without the 'stuff'.
also make sure the axle is strong enough..1" diam .
a low cost fix is to bolt a 1/4" steel plate to the SC frame.heavy enough to make up for the weight needed.
your frame alone with the wheel and suspension will only weigh about 100 pounds.. you will need another 100 pounds bolted permanently to the frame, as far outboard as possible, and centered over the SC wheel[not in front of the SC wheel].
The very first ocasion you tried a stiff sidecar of any type in the snow you will be so surprised and happy about it that you will not think much about the Subarú. And its much safer.
thats first.
for to transport load a stiff construction is much more handy and safer then the swivel unit. Combination of swivel and stiff is theoreticaly possible, but it will exeed a special subframe where front and back swivel are on the centerline of the bike and that is pretty dificult to do without throwing the big old bikes frame away. And here start $$$ to count.
that was second
By the way the old Suzi 85o is a hell of a "Hafflinger" work horse.(i got you right GS850?) There should be quite a few of good options for subframes available. Don't think about to mount direct without subframe or reinforcement, that brings trouble and your bones or wallet would not like it for long.
I just want to warn you not to make it too cheepy, Mickey Mouse constructions turn out too dangerous in this media.
Regards
Sven Peter Pan
I am also a newbie and still enjoy the leaning from time to time.
If you do forum search with "articulated", you will find some posts not many. A few month ago I saw one who built free-leaner for his BMW by himself. He has his web page and maybe you can contact him.
I want to build one if I can but I am not sure..
you have a solid point there Sven, my seat is worth extra loot to make it road worthy for sure! GS850 it is, an L model, so it has a "leading" front axle already, tho probably not enough to eliminate the need for some modification
thanks for the articulated pointer too!! what I really need to see is the concept and technical details to assess my route.
things like the extension for the front end. How does that relate to rake and trail, negative trail etc? those sorts of things are in my head...
Hey Snowbeard:
For the tecnical details (and much more) get a good introduction by studying the translation of the german SC manual in the links section. That booklet is for me still a kind of drivers bible I pull out frecuently in these last 21 years.
Have fun and enjoy your prodject, you seem to have a lot of time.
And I am bummbing now since last thurday with an inspection and calibration report, that never wants to end.....
Would be much nicer to stick the nose into the wind.
Regards
Sven Peter Pan
Originally written by snowbeard on 7/17/2007 12:50 PM
y'know, I really don't plan to use this in the mountains during the winter, I can drive my 4wheeldrive subaru if I need it, t'would only be a fluke if I took a rig skiiing (I say now).
My real purpose is the kayak trips, and it is a whitewater kayak, sorry I left out crucial information ';-) only about six feet long, give or take a few inches. boat is 30 lbs, another ten of gear. camping stuff can get upwards of 50lbs, if I'm not backpacking, who cares, eh? so there's the weight right there, if I made a substantial frame and wheel it would likely be fifty lbs easy...
but the reason for taking the bike is also the feel of the ride? I think I'm rather set on either a flex car or the trailer so I can still enjoy the curves to their full extent (no offense intended).
I'm a creative sort, maybe I can create it so that there's a bar to attach at will, transforming it from a flex to a rigid? (this is why I started out with the whole newbie disclaimer, I know I'm stirring the pot but I'm really serious)
I guess the other crucial piece of info is that I'm a cheap SOB. But I live in an area that has so much to offer, there is a lot going on in Boulder on so many fronts, so much excess that things trickle down to the point I find things like shiny new whole weedeaters that run in the recycling bins. wasteful things like that. so if I know what i need to be looking for, I could likely build this up for a song and a sixpack.
I've been thinking a little more about your questions. Judging from your hobbies, I think you should be warned about the addictive nature of sidecars. Kayaking, skiing, and mountain biking all fall under the heading of adrenaine sports. I know this from first hand experience. With a rigid frame sidecar, all those Colorado dirt roads will offer yet another form of recreation that you will find appealing. The same is true for the snow covered paved roads in the winter. You also mentioned being resourceful. Sidecars of any sort are a tinkerers dream. I spend an awful lot of time thinking about or making improvements to my rig. It takes a concerted effort on my part to not start any sidecar project that takes the rig out of sevice more than a day or two.
The sidecar is a sport unto itself like no other. If you still need to lean to get your thrill, get both.
yeah, like Mark just said...good chance that once you get onboard that SC rig, you will forget the Kayaking and drive right past the launch site and just keep on riding! addicting!!
oh great!! that's why I wanted the SC in the first place! lol
I already have the one, my GS650, that would stay two wheeled, and since I want to ride daily for work it kills my kayaking because I have to drive the cage to carry the boat!!
I'll go find that bible, thanks! it's not so much that I have a lot of time, actually the opposite, I just have an overactive imagination ';-)
