Does anyone have a preference of after market versus stock Harley sidecar with rigid frame of sidecar to rigid frame with no suspension on sidecar wheel? I am not staring at the set up, but memory tells me the side car has leaf springs between "boat/passenger compartment" and frame. No spring between frame and sidecar wheel! So does this make the bike lurch when side car wheel hits a bump or drop in a hole? Do passengers ever complain of motion sickness? Are there shocks on these rigs or available?
Is there such a thing as quick disconnect for a Harley sidecar? Need extra parts?
What happens to Gas mileage? Heard can drop as low as 24 MPG!
What is average ballast for FLH in sidecar without passenger?
Thank you in advance for your comments!
sturgisherb@yahoo.com
Right, only the tub has leaf suspension. Some don't like the rocking effect. Almost all other currently sold sidecars have coil over shock/swingarm suspension. Some earlier aftermarket models have torsional suspension. Much smoother riding as the road shocks are absorbed and do mot transfer over to the motorcycle.
Harley cars do not have quick release mounts.
The Harley rigs drive quite well without suspension as there is some flex allowed in the mountings. Curvy rough roads can cause some weird harmonics with the leaf sprung boat bouncing around though.
There have been shocks mounted more or less horizontally on the sidecar tub to break up the rocking but a pot hole hit by the unsprung sidecar wheel will be telegraphed to the bike.
With a bagger you can expect up to 40 MPG with speeds around 60-65. Expect as low as 30 with 70-75 mph for sustained periods over variable terrain.
H-D used to have a 44# cast iron weight mounted on the wheel side sidecar leaf spring for ballast.
More can be added behind the seat if desired.
Lonnie
quick release - is for the most part a pure fantasy.
to ride right the bike / sidecar alignment need to be essentially perfect - each time you take it off and put it on there is a little tweaking.
if you are VERY mechanically adept you can do the removal in a few hours and do the install and alignment in a day [and you need to have good strength and be able to work on your knees quite a bit]
since a hd is 700 to 800 lb and the sidecar is just under 300 its not light work.
if you want "optimal" steering you need to change the front tree - and change it back again for solo operation. it is possible to get decent steering with the stock tree but alignment is extremely critical - you need to set it up to be right for the roads you ride on.
you will NOT have neutral steering on every road surface - left lane of 4 lane highways being the worst if its set up for 2 lane highway.
to
thanks to Hack'n and timo482 comments are helpful,
I am of the impression, Harley put a damper on the forks to stop wobble and avoid the added expense and labor for adjusting the trail of front end, treating the wobble/symptom rather than the cause, wrong angle, rake, so they can add a sidecar to any bike and return any hack to a two wheeler by unbolting sidecar!
I expect HD does not alter the triple trees on the bikes they supply with sidecars from factory! Any arguments?
It would seem that once a side car is set up and found to be drivable on a bike with standard rake and triple trees, that alignment parts/adjusters could be permanently mark the adjustment hardware so as to return to the same position or close to it rather quickly!
Anyone ever sleep in a HD hack while riding on long trips? Or impossible?
Anyone cart a dog in sidecar safely?
Anyone cart a dog in sidecar safely?
Many take their dogs along. About 1/4 of our clients but so their dogs can come with them.
Most use a harness with short straps so the dog cannot jump out if they get excited (usually due to another passing dog). Some use two straps; one hooked to the footrest so the dog can lie down in the nose out of the weather and one connected to a handgrip or luggage rack to limit travel.
Dogs usually take over the sidecar before they are out of the driveway.
Many owners also buy "Doggles" for their pooch, goggles made for eye protection.
Lonnie
sturgisherb - 12/28/2009 7:25 PM
thanks to Hack'n and timo482 comments are helpful,
I am of the impression, Harley put a damper on the forks to stop wobble and avoid the added expense and labor for adjusting the trail of front end, treating the wobble/symptom rather than the cause, wrong angle, rake, so they can add a sidecar to any bike and return any hack to a two wheeler by unbolting sidecar!
I expect HD does not alter the triple trees on the bikes they supply with sidecars from factory! Any arguments?
It would seem that once a side car is set up and found to be drivable on a bike with standard rake and triple trees, that alignment parts/adjusters could be permanently mark the adjustment hardware so as to return to the same position or close to it rather quickly!
Anyone ever sleep in a HD hack while riding on long trips? Or impossible?
The way you describe the Harley design and parts supply, it sounds like a conspiracy! LOL.
Harley advises against using modified triple trees on their motorcycles since they know well that many will periodically remove the sidecar and ride solo. With modified trees, this modification then becomes a handling issue.
Not arguing. What wobble? I've owned three Harley sidecar rigs since 1990 and none of them wobbled. The steering damper is a handy thing to have since it slows down the steering. The only time it's a problem is when you are parking,
It's possible to mark the sidecar parts and be able to return to the original setting that was used. I wil always do a toe-in check and a lean check anyway.
Haeley built triple trees for their sidecar rigs that were adjustable from 1949 on, when the first Hydra-Glides were built. They quit sometime in the Shovelhead period when the first rubber-mounted FLT's came out and never looked back.
They realized, as far as I can tell, that sidecars are always going to be a low volume item, although they are still used in many police forces. Now, with the new Tri-Glide, they are making modified trees and they are available to use on solos. What's not to like?
As far as sleeping in the hack, I've never heard of it. They are rather tight.
So, triple tree change outs are a major pain to install and should not be used if one intends to alternate between 2 up and sidecar usage!
Your comments also seem to indicate that the steering damper is more of an option than a necessity?
There is a plate attached to the bottom triple tree when using the damper? Does this require any disassembly of triple tree or simple bolt on?
I have noticed a wobble in my handle bars when on two wheel letting go of handle bars. I tightened the head bearing and the vibration felt when applying front breaks is gone and wobble experienced seems reduced but wobble will still gradually increase the longer the bars are not held. Do you think I need to take up more on bearing or is some wobble expected? Seems to meet the rock back and forth pattern described in the shop manual!
Hey! HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL! KEEP THE SHINY SIDE UP!
if you want to go back and forth - you need to stick with the factory tgree and work out your shoulders with wts.
if you have the swing by set tight enough you can get by without the dampener - but the dampener comes stock with the sidecar - i use mine even with a raked tree.
the plate on the tree replaces the air deflector
if you have a wobble - find the culpret and fix it - your life depends on it.. it can be loose neck, loose front bearings, loose rear engine mounts, loose rear swing arm bushings, loose rear wheel berings, worn tires.....
to
sturgisherb - 1/1/2010 8:49 AM
So, triple tree change outs are a major pain to install and should not be used if one intends to alternate between 2 up and sidecar usage!
Your comments also seem to indicate that the steering damper is more of an option than a necessity?
There is a plate attached to the bottom triple tree when using the damper? Does this require any disassembly of triple tree or simple bolt on?
I have noticed a wobble in my handle bars when on two wheel letting go of handle bars. I tightened the head bearing and the vibration felt when applying front breaks is gone and wobble experienced seems reduced but wobble will still gradually increase the longer the bars are not held. Do you think I need to take up more on bearing or is some wobble expected? Seems to meet the rock back and forth pattern described in the shop manual!
Hey! HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL! KEEP THE SHINY SIDE UP!
Yes. Changing the triple trees is a fairly intense job.
If you have a wobble I suspect that the fork head bearings and/or the front tire need replacement.
The steering damper is an option, I guess, but I use it because I like it. You can run without it. It's easily installed with the later sidecar that has the mount for it on the cross bar.
Is the damper design where there is a plate bolted to bottom of the triple tree for damper an old design no longer used?
sturgisherb - 1/1/2010 4:08 PM
Is the damper design where there is a plate bolted to bottom of the triple tree for damper an old design no longer used?
The steering damper mount replaces the original cup-shaped air dam (58520-79A) that bolts to two threaded holes in the rear of the bottom tree. It dates to the start of the TLE sidecars for the first rubber-mounted FLT's which were the last Shovelheads built in 1983 or 1984, depending upon who you are talking to. At the same time, the adjustable trees became a thing of the past. They also changed from the large unwieldly threaded couplings on the two lower mouints that they had used for many, many years to Heim joints. That made connection easier, although it was still necessary to remove the Heim joint bolt and slip the joint apart to make toei-in changes. Later, in 2003, IIRC, they went to turnbuckle-style standoffs which permitted easy adjustment in place.
So the triple tree plate (HD calls it an air baffle) is still a good part number (87143-83) and, as you can see, it started in 1983.
anyone have an idea what a new Harley D sidecar should go for today and a good dealer in new england to get a good price? Am told have to order now for spring delivery 7-8+K
sturgisherb - 1/1/2010 6:16 PM
anyone have an idea what a new Harley D sidecar should go for today and a good dealer in new england to get a good price? Am told have to order now for spring delivery 7-8+K
You should be able to find out the present-day MSRP on the TLE and TLE/Ultra from your dealer. A couple of years ago when I ordered mine, tthe Standard TLE was $7,350 and the Ultra was close to $10,000. Those prices were delivered to the dealer in the crate and included $300 shipping, document fee and tax, IIRC. If you install it yourself, you can save a bundle. Delivery took about ten to eleven weeks.
I don't know any dealer that would give any price lower than MSRP at this time. Since the sidecars have to be ordered, they won't cut any slack.
