Ballast?

Since the earliest of times - going back at least 100 years - to 1911 - just after the sidecar was born - it was found that when the sidecar was about 35% of the weight of the combo, optimum performance was achieved. Whether this was in the form of an optimally balanced rig, or was in the form of a slightly lighter sidecar with some added weight, it made little difference. Of course, adjustments may be made for your particular speed, roads travelled, etc - but this is a general finding. Where a much lighter chair is used it will spend much of its time in the air. For some this is the way to go. If the chair is too heavy, it will lag when accelerating and attempt to lead when braking. There is no one size fits all. Whatever suits you is just fine. Should one optimally ballast a rig for his driving style, it will probably not suit another sidecarist - maybe too light or too heavy. Many times when I used to go to the major sidecar events, fellas would come up to me for my opinion. I gave it my classic at rest sidecar swing - foot and body on left footpeg, swing body outwards while yanking up on right handlebar and pushing down on left handlebar. If rig came up swiftly and almost overturned I just smiled and said sweetly - your rig is unsafe. Suggest you have it carried back home. If the sidecar came up a few inches and thumped back down I was then ready to ride it.

GNM109, Lonnie...I said nothing different than what Mr. Kendall stated above. Apologies that I am not as eloquent as he. The original poster was inquiring about an Electroglide with factory sidecar. That combo needs no ballast unless he weighs about 500lbs. I was not aware that you can not share a differing point of view on this forum or add to a "old topic". If that qualifies me as a troll here, so be it. Again, my apologies to all who were offended. I shant troll here again.

In parting, let me extend my deepest gratitude to Mr. Kendall for allowing his publications to be freely distributed to the community. A very selfless thing to do in the name of safety and knowledge. I tip my hat....

I have to agree with Hal and William. I've been around sidecars for more than 40 years and have seen more poor combinations than good ones. Ballast, to me, is one more thing that can backfire on you.

I used to carry bags of sand in my HitchHiker/Goldwing combination, figuring I could dump them in the ditch when they were too much. Unfortunately, when they needed to be there, they were empty. Or when the sidecar was loaded to capacity, it was overloaded with 2 75 pound bags. I'm sure that is the reason I bent the frame on that car twice. I had the frame gusseted and reinforced and still bent it a second time.

Since then, I pay particular attention to keeping the weight ratio correct when I put one together.

Without exception, every time I hear a nightmare story about sidecars, it involves a Spirit of America, Velorex 562, or something similar on a Harley or Goldwing, or other big bike.

An important thing to consider though is that we are talking about the weight when going down the road. I recently had a conversation with a man who told me he switched from a sidecar to a trike, because "sidecars are death traps". Upon further discussion, he insisted that his outfit, a Harley Davidson, was "properly balanced at the factory". The part he didn't consider was that he weighed nearly 300 pounds, and his sidecar carried a 12 pound Schnauzer. Now his 800 pound motorcycle weighs 1100 pounds, and his 250 pound sidecar isn't nearly heavy enough. Add to this that all his camping gear is on the bike, because he didn't want to crowd the dog.

Now he rides a trike and the dog stays home.

SidecarMike - 1/4/2011 7:51 AM

I have to agree with Hal and William.  I've been around sidecars for more than 40 years and have seen more poor combinations than good ones.  Ballast, to me, is one more thing that can backfire on you. 

 I used to carry bags of sand in my HitchHiker/Goldwing combination, figuring I could dump them in the ditch when they were too much.  Unfortunately, when they needed to be there, they were empty.  Or when the sidecar was loaded to capacity, it was overloaded with 2 75 pound bags.  I'm sure that is the reason I bent the frame on that car twice.  I had the frame gusseted and reinforced and still bent it a second time.

Since then, I pay particular attention to keeping the weight ratio correct when I put one together.

Without exception, every time I hear a nightmare story about sidecars, it involves a Spirit of America, Velorex 562, or something similar on a Harley or Goldwing, or other big bike. 

An important thing to consider though is that we are talking about the weight when going down the road.  I recently had a conversation with a man who told me he switched from a sidecar to a trike, because "sidecars are death traps".  Upon further discussion, he insisted that his outfit, a Harley Davidson, was "properly balanced at the factory".  The part he didn't consider was that he weighed nearly 300 pounds, and his sidecar carried a 12 pound Schnauzer.  Now his 800 pound motorcycle weighs 1100 pounds, and his 250 pound sidecar isn't nearly heavy enough.  Add to this that all his camping gear is on the bike, because he didn't want to crowd the dog.

Now he rides a trike and the dog stays home.

40 years? You're a short timer. LOL.

Apparently some say that ballast isn't needed and some say it is. Someone came up with a figure that the sidecar should be exactly one third of the GVR (Gross Vehicle Weight). Where did that come from? And if that's correct, wouldn't it be a good idea to add ballast to the sidecar to balance to that figure if the sidecar is lighter than it should be?

For the record, I've ridden many a mile on a Harley sidecar and they are rather well-balanced. A little weight helps but, overall, they are quite good. Too bad they quit making them in favor of their $35,000.00 (plus tax, documentation, freight and other state and local fees) trikes.

I'm trying to determine exactly what this thread is about. So, if someone could tell me whether there is a dispute going on here, I'd like to know what it is.

gnm109 - 1/4/2011 10:22 AM 40 years? You're a short timer. LOL.

Actually, it's 43 years. I started young. 🙂

In support of those who are weight challanged - one of our past USCA VPs tipped the scales at almost 400 pounds I believe and stood some six feet tall. He used a Heddingham sidecar attached to his huge Goldwing, but the entire outboard frame of large diameter fipe was filled entirely with lead shot. Yes - he needed every ounce of ballast. I, on the other hand, used no ballast on my Laverda 3C with Watsonian GP - believing more in use of throttle to power slide those righthanders. Of course tire life was short - but the grin on mhy face was huge.

There does not appear to be any dispute. Consider the ancient ledgend of the three blind wise men and the elephant.
One day, three blind men happened to meet each other and gossiped a long time about many things. Suddenly one of them recalled, “I heard that an elephant is a queer animal. Too bad we’re blind and can’t see it.”
“Ah, yes, truly too bad we don’t have the good fortune to see the strange animal,” another one sighed.
The third one, quite annoyed, joined in and said, “See? Forget it! Just to feel it would be great.”
“Well, that’s true. If only there were some way of touching the elephant, we’d be able to know,” they all agreed.
It so happened that a merchant with a herd of elephants was passing, and overheard their conversation. “You fellows, do you really want to feel an elephant? Then follow me; I will show you,” he said.
The three men were surprised and happy. Taking one another’s hand, they quickly formed a line and followed while the merchant led the way. Each one began to contemplate how he would feel the animal, and tried to figure how he would form an image.
After reaching their destination, the merchant asked them to sit on the ground to wait. In a few minutes he led the first blind man to feel the elephant. With outstretched hand, he touched first the left foreleg and then the right. After that he felt the two legs from the top to the bottom, and with a beaming face, turned to say, “So, the queer animal is just like that.” Then he slowly returned to the group.
Thereupon the second blind man was led to the rear of the elephant. He touched the tail which wagged a few times, and he exclaimed with satisfaction, “Ha! Truly a queer animal! Truly odd! I know now. I know.” He hurriedly stepped aside.
The third blind man’s turn came, and he touched the elephant’s trunk which moved back and forth turning and twisting and he thought, “That’s it! I’ve learned.”
The three blind men thanked the merchant and went their way. Each one was secretly excited over the experience and had a lot to say, yet all walked rapidly without saying a word.
“Let’s sit down and have a discussion about this queer animal,” the second blind man said, breaking the silence.
“A very good idea. Very good.” the other two agreed for they also had this in mind. Without waiting for anyone to be properly seated, the second one blurted out, “This queer animal is like our straw fans swinging back and forth to give us a breeze. However, it’s not so big or well made. The main portion is rather wispy.”
“No, no!” the first blind man shouted in disagreement. “This queer animal resembles two big trees without any branches.”
“You’re both wrong.” the third man replied. “This queer animal is similar to a snake; it’s long and round, and very strong.”
How they argued! Each one insisted that he alone was correct. Of course, there was no conclusion for not one had thoroughly examined the whole elephant. How can anyone describe the whole until he has learned the total of the parts.

And so it is with sidecarists. Every one is right, or perhaps not so right. But all are welcome to express their views and their experiences from which we all lean when we appreciate the whole, and not just the part.

SidecarMike - 1/4/2011 9:24 AM

gnm109 - 1/4/2011 10:22 AM  40 years? You're a short timer. LOL. 

Actually, it's 43 years.  I started young.  🙂

Oh sure, now you shange it.....LOL.

There are old sidecarists and there are bold sidecarists

But there are are no old and bold sidecarists

Hal

I have a 04 Electra Glide with a 2010 Hannigan Classic SC. I've got 90 lbs from a old dumbell set, in the trunk. works well...

I took "Crawf's" advice and wired up a car battery! Great ballast and extra juice!

hal77079 - 1/4/2011 1:32 PM
There are old sidecarists and there are bold sidecarists
But there are are no old and bold sidecarists

Thanks for the reminder Hal. Occasionally, the late model BMW riders encourage me to go "play" with them. I generally know better.

Could just fill a plastic fuel jug full of water, or? Was thinking I could carry a Jerry can (plastic of course) of gas, and 1 of water along for the ride.

Of course. Outfits designed for desert movement were often equipped with jerry cans for fuel and water. However, these were of the old WWII type - steel - mounted in exceptionally strong brackets - also steel - be very careful oin placement, especially if using gas in plastic jugs - and think of where you would place them. Collisions. Fire. Extra fuel carriers have been used as long steel cylinders between the bike and sidecar, with auxilliary pumps to pump the fuel back into the gas tank. Just think safety first. For yourself, and for other road users.

Best location - just rear of seat and inside trunk - as close to SC wheel as possible. If gas inside trunk - then think of vapor to outside - bad idea. Do not have any loose objects in trunk.
Hal

I'm currently learning to drive a sidecar rig & actually just got my first rig yesterday! After checking out all the new hardware attached to my bike, the first thing I did was go to Home Depot & buy 2 50lb bags of rocks. I put each into an old pillowcase & they went into the trunk.

I figure 100 lbs is heavier than my kid & lighter than my wife, so it's a good middle ground to start learning with before I put either of them in the 'car. I'll most likely leave 1 bag in when my kid's along with me.

--chiba