Since no other state has the ability to track three wheels vs two I was very interested in the 93 number. Can you provide any numbers of total 3 vs 2 drivers in WA? I just think these might be some interesting facts to ponder.
93 was the number of 3-wheel tests given.
That wouldn't include riders who opted for the training in lieu of
taking the test or those who are riding without the 3-wheel endorsement.
I would never have known about the requirement if I hadn't met
someone on the ferry who was considering getting a trike with
the two front wheels and one rear configuration... which is
nothing like either a sidecar or a normal trike.
To try to train every rider for every type of vehicle seems
ludicrous for a government entity to regulate.
A simple advisory statement that specific training is a good
idea would more than suffice. I guess I'm Libertarian in this
regard; the minutae of specific training for every endeavor
is beyond the scope of what government needs to be involved with.
It should be up to manufacturers and their customers to
coordinate training. Manufacturers could offer training
even to buyers of used vehicles as a form of customer service
at a nominal cost, and customers could consider whether
this is important to them in their purchasing decision.
I can't even find out when and where to take the riding skills
test. The information is difficult to find, or unavailable.
I called the Kirkland location to find out about testing
times, and have not been contacted as promised (the examiner
was out on a test and was supposed to return my call later in
the day).
I would rather leave all of this up to the private sector.
This entire fiasco has not made me any safer in any way, and
has been nothing but an expense and inconvenience of ridiculous
proportions.
Originally written by Hack'n on 8/4/2007 1:38 AM
...It's a shame they weren't interested enough to put a word in a couple of years ago when this issue was timely and it might have made a difference.)
Had I been aware of this I would have been involved.
But most people have no idea that a motorcycle endorsement
does not cover all vehicles registered as a motorcycle.
My fear is that the next step will be a new registration category,
which is part of why I would like to see the special endorsement
requirement revoked.
Tonight on channel 4 news included with the pursuit of a 120MPH squid was that now if you don't have the proper license that they can "impound the motorcycle" and what's hooked to it. Somebody wondered what was next,,,,well here it is.
MARK 42 WROTE:
Had I been aware of this I would have been involved.
But most people have no idea that a motorcycle endorsement
does not cover all vehicles registered as a motorcycle.
My fear is that the next step will be a new registration category,
which is part of why I would like to see the requirement revoked.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As far as the registration goes think real hard on who would benefit the most if that happened.
Hint...It will NOT be the sidecarist!! Some will tout the greatness of such a plan and some will no doubt be sucked into it. In reality only a few will benefit and moreso for personal gain than anything else.
Well since you mentioned it, currently there is no way to know how many three wheelers are in WA. There is no way of knowing if the funding is too little or much without some kind of accounting.
Suggestions other than registrations (nothing new, just creating a sub-category for 2, 3 or automotive-based)?
I think everyone but the sidecarist would benefit in a microscopic amount
by the slight increase in the DOT's available budget from the additional
fees trike & sidecar woners would have to pay (sounds familar).
I'm still trying to find a place & schedule for taking the 3-wheel skills test.
If I were a manufacturer or dealer, I would be working to simplify the
process to avoid discouraging potential customers.
It's Monday Mark so sorry but I just don't follow your 1st para. What does DOT's budget have to do with anything? What additional fees to 3 wheel operators?
Thanks
Originally written by WashCI on 8/6/2007 9:53 AM
It's Monday Mark so sorry but I just don't follow your 1st para. What does DOT's budget have to do with anything? What additional fees to 3 wheel operators?
Thanks
My fear is that the next step will be a new vehicle registration
category, which is part of why I would like to see the special
3-wheel endorsement requirement eliminated.
Someone above mentioned that if there were a new registration category,
it would undoubtedly result in more registration fees which might not even
have benefit to the vehicle owners.
To which I responded that the fees would benefit everyone else more than they
would the vehicle owners.
Also I mentioned that I'm still trying to contact the test site in Kirkland
to find out when I can take the riding test.
So far, all I have seen is inconvenience and cost to meet a new licensing
requirement which the DOL has not provided adequate opportunity to
comply with.
Thanks for the clarification.
1. Since operating a rig is completely different from riding a bike, to not have specific testing and/or training is a little like saying a drivers license is sufficient for driving a 18 wheeler. The two are not the same (I base that statement on my conversations with trike and sidecar operators).
2. No one has ever suggested a separate registration, simply a requirement for the office to mark/annotate the motorcycle being registered has either 2 or 3 wheels. It's transparent to anyone but DOL. Data, data, data. Right now there are just over 250 three wheel only operators in WA (endorsements). That's all that can be proved. So with no better accounting than that, I'm providing 3 wheelers with well beyond their fair share (2 wheel compared to 3 wheel) of the training funds. So who's getting the benefit here that you're worried about? Wouldn't it be better to say, as a 3 wheeler, this is what you should be doing for us and here's the proof?
Call the Kirkland LSO. When you get the automated system, select the option to schedule a drive test. Someone will help you schedule. The office is closed on Mondays.
A 3-wheeler is no big rig, and odds are extremely low that if a person elects to ride one without proper training or practice he would hurt anyone but himself.
And that's my point. I don't want to be protected from myself.
As a motorist and motorcyclist, I do think I need some protection from untrained commercial vehicle dirvers, and I don't feel I need protection from riders who have a 2 wheel endorsement crashing into me on their 3-wheelers.
The level of risk is not worth all the hassles of the extra endorsement.
Allowing people to use 3 wheels to take the motorcycle endorsement test would not present a significant risk to the public either.
Wearing helets in automobiles would save more lives than if you could prevent all 3-wheeler crashes... but the public would never accept the inconvenience.
Hey Mark, go to www.spokanebiker.com and click on Legislative Affairs then scroll down towards the bottom where it says "Current Washington..." I think you'll find some very interesting reading there.
Originally written by WashCI on 8/6/2007 12:05 PMCall the Kirkland LSO. When you get the automated system, select the option to schedule a drive test. Someone will help you schedule. The office is closed on Mondays.
I called them last Friday, they took my phone number and were supposed
to call me back at work. They never did.
I tried several times this morning, and I get a busy signal.
Ridiculous.
Finally got through on the phone, they said they'd call back,
but I gave up after a few hours and called again.
The only time available is August 25th... the same weekend I'm
supposed to go to Spokane to help my 83 yr. old father move
into a retirement home.
Could they make this any less convenient?
So, I have a new sidecar rig, and after spending a week trying
to get licensed, I find out it will be a month before I can
take people on rides in the sidecar legally.
What a bunch of Bull %^&@.
I spent $693 for tax & registration on a USED rig, and they can't
even provide me with a reasonable way to comply with an utterly
stupid and unnecessary law!
I feel so *#@% much safer - NOT!
I really wish somene coudl flip this section of the forum over so the last post that was done woudl come up first..Most of all I hope a lot of folks who think this washington state F I A S C O was such a favor being done for sidecarists and trikers are reading this.
Hey, Mark move to another state! Obviously the totally stupid sidecar legislation that has taken place in Washington is out of control.
$693 for tax and regiatration? You have to be kidding! Makes me wonder how many other scams are in place in Washington State.
Hey WASHCI (STEVE?) YOU WROTE:
>> I'm the program manager in Washington (just thought a little full disclosure would be good)<<.
Not sure what program manager you are but it sure seems from what Mark is saying some programes sure need some managing.
How about a little 'full disclosure' to fill us in on how and why this FIASCO is what it is?
