One problem we have is all the horror stories about how dangerous a sidecar is, too much mis-information out there , how the car lifts in a rh turn. we need to do better advertising about sidecars. I tell people that when we put a sidecar on a bike you can have 3 people on board, 4 if they are small. Convert a bike to a trike and you still only can have 2 people on board. Here in Mesa AZ. I rarely see another sidecar except mine. One time I did count 5 at a Wed. night bike night but that was 4 years ago. ural is the most common one i see.
Doug Hasert - 8/16/2013 2:38 PM
One problem we have is all the horror stories about how dangerous a sidecar is, too much mis-information out there , how the car lifts in a rh turn. we need to do better advertising about sidecars.
Your correct about the horror stories and possibly more should be done to advertise about sidecars as to what they can and can not do but in the end if a person is not interested in a sidecar all the advertising and information will never change their minds.
I think it all boils down to availability. If the only sidecar that is available in a given area of the country is a Ural and the people like myself would never have one then they are out of luck and will move on to something else like a new boat for instance. Peoples attention spans are short and if what they are looking for is not available then they find the next toy to go and play with.
Back in the 70's when I started building sidecar there was a dealer in Boston that sold sidecar and at best he may have moved four or five units a year. His buisness was selling European motorcycles and the sidecars were a sideline with not a hole lot of mark up. He had a potential market of two million people to sell to but never spent one cent advertising sidecars. As for me I spent very little but for the money I reached a lot of people and they would come to me without any preconceived notions as to what sidecars were all about. So it was up to me as a manufacturer to educate them and in reality it was easy. I submit that almost any part of the country the same thing could be done again. The seventy's weren't the best economic times but it never seemed to slow us down sale wise. Granted today it is a lot worse than back then but more people are retiring especially the "Baby Boomers" and many could be potential customers.
As an example I bet the area around Washington DC for one hundred miles would be a hot bed for sidecars if they were made available and some time and a little money spent advertising them. The advertising could stress a "new adventure". Then up toward Philly and the new Jersey shore. I have a buddy in Chicago that was telling me that he sells bike parts and a few sidecar, he doesn't manufacture sidecars on ten or twelve different Craigslist's. You need a population and a way to reach the people with something different. I'm convinced if you tried to go threw motorcycle dealerships that would be a disaster. I've looked at the Southeast and from Knoxville Tennessee to the coast and from Charlotte to Atlanta is wide open with millions of people. The thing is you need the correct widget to fill the spot. In the 90's when I was selling only my Liberty sidecar I would sell up to five sidecars at a show and this was only around the Charlotte area within one hundred miles. At that time there was no Ebay, Craigslist, or internet to help improve sale and to help reach more people. I'm not saying that any for these is the best way to generate sale just saying that they weren't around and we still sold a particular type of sidecar. It was part time for me but with a little advertising and more shows it could have been full time but I couldn't have afforded the pay reduction. Since my health has improved and I'm a hundred percent I'm looking at bringing a new sidecar to the Southeast market and possibly selling world wide with the new inland port that they are building twelve miles form me. I've done a business model and the numbers seem to work.
Well I thought I would through my two cents in but I don't see the sidecar numbers growing by any large amount in the near future and we as sidecar people will still go about our lives being one per-centers but in a different way than what the progressives mean by the phrase. In the end it's not a bad thing because every time you pull in some place with your sidecar rig you most likely will be the only sidecar.
Hey, Johnny, looks like one of yours.....
http://nh.craigslist.org/mcy/3988534172.html
Ran across it looking for a car for my Norton......
Mr. Sweet, as usual another excellent article. Metropolitan Atlanta covers 15 counties and has 5.5 million population. Looking forward to see how your business plan unfolds.
Marcus - 8/16/2013 5:32 PM
Hey, Johnny, looks like one of yours.....
http://nh.craigslist.org/mcy/3988534172.htmlRan across it looking for a car for my Norton......
Yes it's what we called the SL-220 model but someone had cut the back of the midget back off to make room for two small kids. I remember this sidecar back in the 1970 after I built it for a fellow. He sold it and someone chopped it up. I received an email this week and a guy is looking to pick it up and restore it. I have some back ends left over from when I install my whale tail and offered the missing piece as a gift if he picks it up.Marcus if you pick it up the missing piece is yours if you need it and I can help with mounting it on a Norton provided that you or a friend can weld and fabricate, Ill walk you through it like I did for Roman and a few others.
I've been stitching up around one upholstery a month for guy's restoring my old sidecars. Some of the work that they are doing to them is outstanding and it makes and old man proud.
So when it's asked where have all the sidecar gone; some are being found every day and being restored to better than new condition. I was sent pictures of one of my sidecars that sits on a front lawn in Lynn Massachusetts that someone turned into a planter and is full of flowers. The sender of the email was concerned that I might be upset seeing the sidecar as a planter. I could care less after all, it is, what it is.
This is one of the upholstery's that I stitched up. I used a sidecar body that I had in the shop and custom fit it. All Joe had to do was install it with my instructions and it looks like he did a great job.
This is the body after it was painted with the new base coat clear coat. The sidecar with the back cut off could look just as good and I beleave it will when they are finished with it.
Wolfhound - 8/16/2013 6:12 PM
Mr. Sweet, as usual another excellent article. Metropolitan Atlanta covers 15 counties and has 5.5 million population. Looking forward to see how your business plan unfolds.
Ralph your correct about the Atlanta area and I have found that people will travel up to three hours away to purchase something if they really want it. Around twenty years ago I helped design boat lifts and we traveled the South East. We had to travel further than people had to in New England but we did generate the same numbers. I beleave that many parts of the country with a population could generate sales with the right product. I think finding the right product is the trick. A good example is my SL model sidecars and the acceptance in New England and other Norther areas but when you look at the Southeast I can't give them away. So the right design to fit the temperament of the populace would be in order otherwise the entire exercise could be folly.
I still believe in this country a young Entrepreneur starting out can do well if he first makes the effort, and second finds the right widget and then the customers will beat a path to his door. It's crazy but in this world today the young "Millenium's" have been taught that Entrepreneurship and making money is being greedy. Boy are they in for a rude awakening in the future when life passes so many of them by and they wonder what the hell happened.
Johnny
Mr. Sweet, that body or the complete hack should be in the Smithsonian. It is a work of art design wise and finish wise. Your last paragraph above is
totally correct. Like you I was taught that you worked to to pay your own way because no one was going to give it to you. People who went on wellfare
in the WNC mountains when I was a kid were shunned.A different day, a different world.
Wolfhound - 8/16/2013 9:23 PM
Mr. Sweet, that body or the complete hack should be in the Smithsonian. It is a work of art design wise and finish wise. Your last paragraph above is
totally correct. Like you I was taught that you worked to to pay your own way because no one was going to give it to you. People who went on wellfare
in the WNC mountains when I was a kid were shunned.A different day, a different world.
Thanks for the kind words. The last of the SL models was a culmination of all the designs and in the end was well received. It would be interesting if one of my designs made it to the Smithsonian but in the end it will most likely never happen. I've been through the museum thing with my Miss Bardahl hydroplane in 1983. It was donated to the Unlimited Gold Cup Hall of Fame and Museum in good faith and within fifteen years was sold and the moneys went for other projects that the directors had a personal connection with. Just a little side note but the Atlas Van Lines Hydroplane called the "Blue Blaster" was donated to the Smithsonian and later given to this same group because it was found that it took up to much room at the Smithsonian. So I submit from first hand experience be very careful as to what anyone donates to any museum. If I had to do it over again I would have lent my Miss Bardahl hydroplane to the museum that way I would have still owned it and my kids could fought over it after I was gone.
As for sidecar designs my next design will have to go some to be more successful than all of the SL models. I've gone in a totally different direction but I believe in the design and like anything in life a man has to go with his gut feeling. I was headed in a different direction as early as eight months ago with a three wheel tilting vehicle and changed directions so this new venture should be an interesting one. The best part of it is that I have a library of information to draw from that I didn't have when I was in my mid twenty's and first starting out on this grand sidecar adventure.
Johnny Sweet - 8/16/2013 8:19 PM
Marcus - 8/16/2013 5:32 PM
Hey, Johnny, looks like one of yours.....
http://nh.craigslist.org/mcy/3988534172.htmlRan across it looking for a car for my Norton......
Yes it's what we called the SL-220 model but someone had cut the back of the midget back off to make room for two small kids. I remember this sidecar back in the 1970 after I built it for a fellow. He sold it and someone chopped it up. I received an email this week and a guy is looking to pick it up and restore it. I have some back ends left over from when I install my whale tail and offered the missing piece as a gift if he picks it up.Marcus if you pick it up the missing piece is yours if you need it and I can help with mounting it on a Norton provided that you or a friend can weld and fabricate, Ill walk you through it like I did for Roman and a few others.
Well,thats a generous offer. I thought I had a line on an American but it fell through so maybe I'll see about the sl 220
Initially looked like more than I wanted to tackle but hey, winter's coming, right? I need something to do.....thanks...
Mr. Sweet, in the future it would be wise to have a legal stipulation that the item donated to a museum could not be sold. The SL is so aerodynamic in design that I think it would
be widely accepted today. You have found the best way to stay young and that is to keep working. It worked for my dad and he passed the philosophy on to me. He was still mentally
active when he passed at age 86. He once noted that a lot of his friends retired and did not live very long after totally retiring. As a result he never completely retired.
Wolfhound - 8/17/2013 1:20 PM
Mr. Sweet, in the future it would be wise to have a legal stipulation that the item donated to a museum could not be sold. The SL is so aerodynamic in design that I think it would
be widely accepted today. You have found the best way to stay young and that is to keep working. It worked for my dad and he passed the philosophy on to me. He was still mentally
active when he passed at age 86. He once noted that a lot of his friends retired and did not live very long after totally retiring. As a result he never completely retired.
At the time no one figured that the Unlimited Gold Cup Hall of Fame and Museum would have joined or be taken up by the Hydroplane Raceboat Museum when Bob Williams got sick but I did have a "First Right of Refusal" in place. They did sell the boat to one of the original crew members form the 1960's and when they called me asking about the rudder and steering from the boat I told them that I had a document with the first right of refusal and for them make out a bill for any work that was done to the boat and I would come out and pick up my boat. They didn't know that I didn't want the boat I had already donated it for one dollar and took a great tax right off. I made em stew for a few day's and then called and told them to go on and restore the boat with my best wishes. It's funny but they never even made an offered for the rudder and steering that they first got in touch with me about. So I had the original rudder and steering from the Miss Bardahl for almost thirty five years and then the new owner of the Famed Miss Madison called me and asked if I would sell it to him. He didn't want me to give it to him and was willing to pay for it. Right away I liked this gentleman because he was like all my friends and wasn't looking for something for nothing. Most museum's and anything to do with the arts are because of the people that are willing to give; benevolence. I always find it funny when the progressives complain about those with the money and assets not giving their fair share but how often will a progressives give anything but expect for the rest of us to give everything. Anyways in the end the original Miss Bardahl rudder and steering will be installed on the Miss Madison. These old boats today run what's called "Vintage" and they even produced a movie in 2005 about the Miss Madison hydroplane and the community in Madison Indiana. I've been friends with many of these people for years and in the end when history is written years form now I would think that the Miss Madison will be the only hydroplane written about. I feel comfortable being best friends with the owner even if back in the day I did my time owning the Miss Bardahl. As I walked away from my experiences dealing with museums I still beleave in benevolence and have donated a lost and forgotten trophy to the Madison museum; so I guess I'm not done yet.
It's interesting in that if I never got into manufacturing motorcycle sidecars and went the corporate route and spent all my time in an office I would have never had the opertunity to get involved with all these other things that have made life so interesting. I find it interesting that I always seem to come back to my passion of motorcycle sidecars.
Mr. Sweet, I do hope that you are keeping all these forum postings of yours for future publication. The book would be a hit with the sidecar crowd.
By the way one of the insurance companies is running an ad on TV featuring a side car in it. I should have written down the name of the Ins. Co.. Will do the
next time I see it.If sidecars are seen in ads more often it might create a resurgence of interest in them.
Wolfhound - 8/17/2013 4:55 PM
Mr. Sweet, I do hope that you are keeping all these forum postings of yours for future publication. The book would be a hit with the sidecar crowd.
By the way one of the insurance companies is running an ad on TV featuring a side car in it. I should have written down the name of the Ins. Co.. Will do the
next time I see it.If sidecars are seen in ads more often it might create a resurgence of interest in them.
Ralph that makes a lot of sense because when we started out building sidecars in the 1970's they didn't exists in our area but as more units were on the street and people saw more and more of them they stuck in peoples minds. It only took a few years and they were out there and people did start to notice. As I have written before many areas of the country could go through the same thing that happened in the greater Boston area back in the 70's. Even in the 1990's when I was building sidecars for the good old boy's around the Charlotte area they started to catch on and if I had never stopped building them I bet that the area could have grown sidecar wise just like the Boston area had. I enjoyed building my sidecars for the "Boy's" in and around the Charlotte area; "Good People".
As far as saving the posts my sons been saving them for his son and their cousins: my other grandchildren. He's saving them more for posterity than anything else. Will I ever write a book about my adventure? Possibly but I would first have to write one about my late uncle Ollie Silva and my time with him. I'm being asked daily from the New England racing fraternity to write one about Ollie and our times together. Something I am working on is a manual on building my newest sidecar frame and how simple it is to build. Also how to mount it onto a motorcycle and how I takes the complexity out of building and setting up a sidecar frame to a motorcycle. The new design is fully adjustable and easy to build but the best part about the new design is the sidecar frame can be removed from the bike in three to five minutes and re installed in five to ten without having to readjust anything. Plus it can be built from simple hand tools and welding equipment. More on it in the future.
Wolfhound - 8/17/2013 4:55 PM
Mr. Sweet, I do hope that you are keeping all these forum postings of yours for future publication. The book would be a hit with the sidecar crowd.
By the way one of the insurance companies is running an ad on TV featuring a side car in it. I should have written down the name of the Ins. Co.. Will do the
next time I see it.If sidecars are seen in ads more often it might create a resurgence of interest in them.
Actually, I've seen two insurance company commercials with sidecars recently. One features an older woman complaining about her son's bike as being not fun. Shows here screaming from a sidecar. The second is a Farmer's comercial with the bald professor riding in a sidecar attached to a.... ahem... Riding lawn mower
EDIT:
The comercial with the older lady was just on. Safeco is the company. Here is the YouTube link to it...
And here's the one from Farmers...
Actually, I've seen two insurance company commercials with sidecars recently. One features an older woman complaining about her son's bike as being not fun. Shows here screaming from a sidecar. The second is a Farmer's comercial with the bald professor riding in a sidecar attached to a.... ahem... Riding lawn mower
Isn't that typical! Back in the day I had a problem with woman over forty scared to death that the sidecar would fall off when they were going down the street. You must realize that at the time I was only in my late twenty's and didn't understand about woman over forty knowing everything and having an opinion about everything; that would come later in life. So to quite them down I started using these three quarter inch bolts that were huge on the rod ends where they bolt to the brackets on the bike. This stopped the complaining and after a while when I had sidecars running all over the place I went to a smaller bolt. A movie with a sidecar wouldn't be complete unless the sidecar fell off or it crashed.
