The Chicago Sky way tried to charge me a 3 -wheeled vehicle toll of $5.10 today

Hello Mr. Doctor,
Have you mentioned this to the AMA?

Lonnie

Hello Lonnie:

Just back in the office after being out for 5 days and yes the AMA Governmental Affairs rep is on my to do list. I am also an AMA membber.

Thanks!

You are correct.

The Skyway in the City of Chicago is the ONLY tollway in the state of IL that NOT operated by the Illinois Tollway Authority (which gave me so much grief in 1978 to 1980 before we kicked their butt).

The Skyway Concession Company, LLC, (a Limited Liability Corporation - I wonder why?) is a foreign company - it is owned by Cintra Concessions de Infrastructuras de Transporte and Macquarie Infrastructure Group which own and operate overb 25 toll roads through the world. They say.

Office: 312-747-8383
FAX: 312-747-1922
skyway@chicagoskyway.org

The headquarters is in Chile:
cintra concesiones de infraestructuras de transporte chile ltda. Tax Id : 78634860-9
avda. andrés bello 2711, Piso 18
las condes - santiago
(56) - (2) - 5606250

chile

This appears to be a shell company - so who the hell knows?????

The game goes on.

They have a variable rate. Just travel between 8pm and 4 am.

I have tried to call - but they do NOT answer.

Will send e-mail

Will also contact the Streets and Sanitation Department of the City of Chicago as that is the Department where the Skyway is run out from.

Would every USCA member also protest this illegal action as we have fought long and hard to have the sidecar rig on the same footing as the family car on every tollway in the US of A.

This is the e-mail I sent to the Skyway Concession Company, also to the City of Chicago - let's see what happens.
=============================================

On July 24, 2005 Dr. Raole Duke was crossing the Chicago Skyway and was
asked for the correct toll of $2.50 and was given a receipt ticket. He was in the process of preparing to drive off when the toll booth attendant yelled at him:

"You are a three wheel vehicle and the toll is $5.10"

A very nasty incident occurred which involved some five of your personnel.

Dr. Duke, in vain, tried to get their toll supervisor.

This harrassment has to stop. Now.

Each State in the United States has ruled that all motorcycles with or without a sidecar are in fact defined as a motorcycle, and furthermore, ALL Tollways in the United States, including the Illinois Tollway Authority charge for a motorcycle with a sidecar attached at the very same rate as a car.

A motorcycle with a sidecar has two axles. A front axle, with one wheel, and a rear axle with two wheels, although one of the rear wheels might sometimes not be exactly in line with the other. Each and every tollway authority has found its own unique way to handle this problem so that the class of ALL motorcycles are charged the SAME rate and no more than a family automobile.

We do not expect to see any further uncivilized actions like this in the future, and expect you to train your staff to act in a more courteous manner towards their patrons.

We also expect to see a uniform toll code for motorcycles.

Hal Kendall, Ph. D., Founder, United Sidecar Association
hkendall1@houston.rr.com

CC. Office of the Mayor, City of Chicago, Streets and Sanitation Department

Thanks Hal! I have a motorcycle riding attorney buddy who I just might sic on them too.

Regards,
Dr. Raoul Duke

You may not agree with me at all, and I am not trying to be confrentational, but the letter, as written, seems to embellish a bit in saying that a "nasty incident" occurred and then equate it to harrassment. If he had tried very hard to get the immediate supervisor at the toll booth, I would assume that he would have actually gone inside and filed a written complaint. However, it did not sound as if he did so and he ultimately "jumped the toll charge" by leaving and risking possible police action for an illegal act. Angry or not or even correct or not, that is not the way to resolve much in a positive manner. I don't have any problem with sending letters and such to change policy, but my main suggestion would be to not approach it with terms that imply harrassment was the reason for the incident. It may have been simply been an error on the part of the toll collector or could have even been a true misunderstanding at the moment it happened. However, I doubt it was actually harrassment and to suggest so does not make the letter stonger in proving a point or enlightening the toll authority.

The phrase about "uncivilized actions" is really unnecessary and probably inaccurate, as is practically demanding that they train their staff to be more courteous to their patrons. The original post probably had things pretty correct, in that the driver was hot and tired and not wanting to put up with something that he did not agree with or feel was fair. I imagine or speculate that both he and the toll personnel entrenched in their positions and no real communication was happening at that point. Right or wrong, there are better ways to request that the toll authority look into the matter. Since he actually was not out any money in the first place, I doubt he has anything to claim in a court of law as no true damage was done. Threats of sicking a lawyer on them and shooting off a ton of letters probably does more harm than good in the long run. It should not be an "us against them" attitude that is conveyed in any letter, and I am afraid that the first draft is exactly that.

Agree or disagree with anything I wrote above, I have no real compassion for someone who hopped the toll, even if they knew they were right. There was a better way to handle it from the get go than doing that and again, we only have one side of the story. What if it was a misunderstanding? What if words were exchanged that were left out of the original post? What if the toll person made an honest mistake and did not set out to harrass the sidecarist? To me, the better thing to have done would have been to request to speak to the supervisor directly. Explain everything to that supervisor and not to the toll person. Request at the site to make a formal complaint. Take a deep breath and be courteous to the toll personnel, even if they are the ones in error. Pay the toll and then add the reciept to any letter deemed important enough to write. Find out if incorrect tolls at this toll booth are routine with others.

I completely speculate here, but feel that there was likely a bit more there than just hot weather that was probably making temps rise for eveyone involved. I also think that to present it on this board allows a one-sided rant to expand into something more than it probably needs to be. Not that you can't discuss such, but one has to remember it is only one side of the coin. If it is really a serious problem, then I do indeed think there is a better way to handle it than by sending letters that convey the wrong message. I usually have to write and re-write letters a whole multitude of times before they really say what I want them to. However, letting things cool a bit and re-reading before sending is always a positive thing for me.

I don't guess I quite understand the significance of why it is important to find out where the toll authority originates. Who cares in that regard? If it is a wrong that has to be addressed, then, by all means address it with a letter. However, make sure the letter really is what you want to say. Sometimes you have to ta

The member was charged the correct charge, had paid, and was given his receipt. That should have been the end. Finish. It was not.

THEY called it then - Brought in FIVE of their squad and they escalated it.

With that squad chasing you, would you have just "gone inside?"

Not bloody likely. Neither would I!

Never have I heard of such an outrage!

I have followed the tollways in EVERY state since 1977 and have brought legislation against Illinois and New Jersey. With help I and the USCA has been responsible for bringing ALL tolls for sidecarists in the US of A to the current uniform rate it is today. It has not been an easy fight. It has been uphill most of the way dealing with beaurocrats and legislators. And we have to retrain them over and over and over again. They keep forgetting. They just will not leave us alone.

All we want is the same equality as any car or motorcycle - And to drive in peace! Is that too much?

Let one tollway slip or one toll booth get away and it is anarchy again.

Are we paranoid?

You bet we are!

It is not just a few bucks.

In some cases, the regular rate maybe $6.50 but for a 3-axle it is $16.50 because you are bumped into a commercial three wheeler, not just another axle.

Are we tough on this issue?

You better believe we are!

Is there another side?

Hell no! Mot when my personal files on this one topic at one time ran to over ten linear feet.

On this issue there is no other side. Ever.

Either I completely missed some of what was originally said or you sure have a way of embellishing a story a bit from what was originally said. I don't recall five of their squad giving chase, but you are exactly wrong in what you assume I would have done, regardless. "Never heard of such an outrage???" Come on! Be real! You are making it out now to sound as if the toll personnel were bullies who were going to use bellyclubs on him and they were all weating jack boots. Your artistic license is a bit stretched in that regard. Jumping a toll is illegal; no if ands or buts. I don't condone or promote that sort of behavior, right or wrong, and would not have gone that route, myself. He did and that is his situation to deal with.

I am not saying there is anything at all in trying to get some rules established that effect everyone in a positive manner as to toll road charges. However, there is probably a much more constructive way to convey that ultimat message instead of giving ultimatums and such. I doubt seriously that anyone is really re-training anyone else when the message is conveyed as you have just done. Also, I am certainly glad that you don't really speak for all sidecarists in the world, regardless of your status in the sidecar community. Your anger gets the best of you waaaay too easily. You seem to make things a total "us against them" situation when it is not. "Anarchy and paranoia" are catch words that really seldom describe anything in a positive manner, but are much more apt to be a bit of hysterics from the writer. Be as passionate about the topic as you please, but when these type of words get added into the body of a message intended to make positive change, it will seldom convey what you really want it to say.

If there is truly a major problem with tolls not being fair, then by all means identify the problem and address it in a constructive manner; especially if it impacts all sidecar operators. With the contempt you seem to have against beaurocrats and legislators, it is no wonder there was an uphill battle for you. Hard to win battles if you express that contempt in letters to them or express everything as an absolute demand. Having worked in and around the court system and around bartering tables for a bit, I can tell you that a strategy like that will loose much more often than it will win. The old addage about flies and honey will win out much more often, I bet.

When you start preaching that there is no other side, ever, then you are destined to have many an uphill battle to begin with. In reality you make most of the hills for yourself when you do that. By doing so, your passions run away from logic a bit, I suspect. I seriously doubt that any representative or legislator is really out to make the life of a sidecarist all that unbearable, so, I am not so sure of how you come up with the idea that they must "leave you alone" as if all sidecarists need some type of individualized freedom to ride the roads. Again, artistic license is stretched a bit in that regard and when that sort of thing gets coveyed in a message, the true message gets lost quickly.

Well, we could get into a heated battle of wits over your passion vs what I think. That would likely result in another 10 linear feet of papers that really are pretty meaningless, in that it won't go on to make the best seller list. Let's just say we choose to disagree on the end method for addressing this problem. My idea is no less or more than yours and your idea is no less or more than mine. Just two different prespectives on the issue.
Huey

Again - you completely missed the point - AGAIN

He has paid the LEGAL toll.

He had received the receipt for the legal toll.

He did NOT jump the toll.

He had done NOTHING WRONG.

Everything WRONG was on their side this time!

To totally disagree with you does not mean I missed any point and I don't believe I did, in reality.

I can only speculate that there was more than just temperature and humidity working overtime at the toll booth to increase the heat of the situation. But, a bad situation was worsened by the actions of the individual at the moment. It could have been handled differently. Maybe if it had happened to me, I would have done the exact same thing when angry, hot and frustrated, but I don't really think so. However, I, as you, are only armchair quarterbacking on the issue, as neither of us were really there to say just who did what wrong. Two differences of opinion on that, but, regardless, if a letterwriting campaign is necessary to correct any perceived wrong at a toll booth, then I'd still say temper the letter much more than the original draft in order to get the best results.

It will be interesting if the toll was under camera and there are any repocussions at a later time. I seriously doubt jack-booted thugs will arrive to nab the culprit, but it will be interesting to see what does transpire. Additionally, it will also be interesting to find out what happens the next time this particular sidecarist travels through the same toll booth. Not sure if the toll people there will remember him, but it should be an interesting situation to view in the future. An interesting thing would be to find out if his actions created any problems for other sidecarists or not afterwards. Maybe he actually got them to rethink the toll by his actions, but I sort of doubt it.

I am indeed fortunate that I do not live in an area where I have to submit to riding daily on a tollway as the norm. I avoid them like a plague, as I do not support having them in the first place. You think it is difficult for fairness in sidecars as to charges that seem unfair, try traveling with two U-haul trucks hauling your furniture and towing a Model A Ford on a trailer behind one of them. Add that mix to a Chevy S-10 ahead of the convoy and you can quickly see that toll charges will rack up very high when every axle, including that of the Model A on a trailer is charged for. The charges to go through the tolls in Oklahoma were awfully stiff when I did it. However, my personal actions on toll roads are going to be my own to deal with and not something that I really need respresentation from anyone else on.

Again, we completely disagree on the subject matter, the actions taken and the right and wrong of what transpired. Who missed what point is a debate in and of itself and won't be settled here, as we will still choose to view things much differently than each other. Disagree with me or not, I do believe the matter was handled wrong and, regardless of the right or wrongs perceived, it could have and should have been handled better. Just my take on it though and you are welcome to hold to you own, although I think you are incorrect.
Huey

In your letter you stress fairness, therefore should be pointed out that there is a BIG difference between a three AXLE vehicle which in tollway terminology typically encompasses up to and often includes a 10-wheeler 40,000 pound refrigerated truck and a TINY 3-wheeler 1,000 pound motorcycle.

There are also several fundamental precepts that have been broken. The Tollways are public service organizations. They operate at the benefit of the public and are subject to certain rules and regulations that were not established by me but by the establishment.

One is that the tollways may make no charge that is excessive for the vehicle class.

Another is that the tollways may make no toll that is discriminatory or variable within the same class.

In seeking to erroneously apply an exhorbinate toll of $5.10, the toll for a commercial 10-wheel 40,000 pound vehicle to a 1000 3-wheel motorcycle the Tollway was seeking to set itself up for a totally illegal and spurious lawsuit, breaking the two most fundamental tenants to serve the public.

All the more henious AFTER they had extracted the full LEGAL toll!!
That is what makes this totally unfathomable!!!

You may get copies of these documents by doing a web search.

And you are indeed quite wrong, again, when you state that axles on your Model A are charges for even if they are already on a trailer. You are only charged for axles that cut the active treadle on the roadway. The next time they do this to you, tell me, and I will get a refund for you. I have gotten refunds from overcharged sidecarists before. It is NOT A GAME!
Be sure to get a receipt, the name of the toll collector, or number, toll booth number, toll ID, toll supervisor, if possible, and toll HQ info and a complaint form. You will find you really need all the help you can get. No one can live on an island. We all help one another. Which is what I am doing here.

Yes, you do very well by staying away from tollways. But we expect you to pay the full LEGAL toll, and not any exhorbinate illegal amount.

And by the way, it is by my actions, with some help, that have gotten the tollway charges brought to the low uniform rate for sidecarists in the US. I have been at this since 1977. Just ask a few of the old timers. And you can ask some of the old Toll Authority Directors how I busted their chops, especially in Illinois, for example. Took two years for them to crack. When you are right you are right. Most fold within a letter exchange or two. So do not knock my tactics. They work!

There are very few who know the inner workings of the tollways and their dirty tricks besides me.

Hal, I agree with you whole heartedly. The per axle charge is normally a way of judging the weight of the vehicle short of running all vehicles across a scale. Normally any vehicle with more than two axles has ten wheels and is carrying a heavy load. If tolls are collected to maintain the roadway, this has those vehicles causing the most wear paying their fair share. In therory. For some power hungry beauracrat to try to charge a vehicle that weighs far less than the average sub-compact the same fee as a 26,000 pound vehicle shows a total lack of common sense.

Thanks, Tom. I needed that. I thought I was pissing into the wind!

one question....If I go thru this tollway with my cargo trailer behind my rig, will I be charged the 3 axle amount? same as the huge 40,000 pound refrigerated trucks?

Bob in wis