sand bags

I don't think it's a good idea to have any unnessesary weight forward of the seat. Try and keep any weight centered on a line from the sidecar wheel's axle, or behind that line.

I've found that too much weight at the front of the sidecar makes the rig unstable.

Imagine a line drawn from the sidecar wheel to the front wheel and one to rear wheel. Adding too much weight forward of those lines will at best cause a loss of traction to the rear wheel. At worst, it could lift the rear wheel or flip the rig. Too much weight behind those lines will cause a loss of traction to the front wheel resulting in a loss of traction to the front wheel, leading to a loss of steering control that could mean a slide off the road or into traffic.

certainly you can over do the ballast thing with too much weight. Misplaced it can cause handling and stability issues, too much can do the same. Like any vehicle, overloading can cause suspension and frame members to become over stressed, it reduces manueverability and increases fuel consumption, tire, clutch and engine wear and robs you of horsepower.

Ballast requirements vary from rig to rig and driver to driver. Very stable rigs may need little or no ballast; they are also least likely to have stability in left turns compromised by over loading. Light rigs, narrow and high rigs respond to more ballast by becoming more stable in right turns and less stable in left turns. This can be exagerated by poorly placed ballast.

Beginners and folks that can not or will not or simply don't care to shift thier weight may want to use a little more ballast than a more nimble or aggressive, experienced rider.

In general, place your ballast low, toward the rear outside corner of a triangle drawn between the contact patches of the three tires. Use a little more to start out with and drive coservatively while you find the sweet spot for your rigs handling and your comfort zone. Beginners should continue driving conservatively a little longer than they think they need to.

Eventually, I prefer reducing the ballast to the minimum required to prevent unpleasant suprises and using driving technique to keep the rig stable rather than a lot of dead weight. Others have different opinions regarding that. In any case each rig and each driver is unique and ultimately you need to find out what works best for you.

Since driving skills evolve and the rig may be changed or the type of driving done may change over time, I would caution against using permanent ballast that would be difficult to remove at a later date, but do secure your ballast so it does not shift while driving.

just my two cents

Originally written by TraprMike on 5/30/2006 12:58 AM

I have about 120# of sandbags it's in front of the seat on the sidecar. should I put one bag in the trunk and one ahead of the seat? or leave it as is. I take my son with also. he is about 60#.

You don't say what you are driving, but in general, the trunk would be a better place for the sandbags than the front seat. Usually more effective placement and less likely to shift. weight in the nose will cause the rig to slide in left turns more easily. If you find yourself sliding left easily you may have too much ballast, you may have it too far forward and you are driving a little too aggresivly. Sliding left is fun, but it can be a precurser to a noseover, which is much more likely with a passenger and or excessive ballast. smooth steering input, slowing down and proper ballast selection and placement will prevent this.

i'm thinking after about another week or so I'll take out one bag and only have one 60# bag up front. then wean myself to no bags after about a month.
is there any steps I should take to get used to having less and less pounds in the hack?? kind of like goals set up to achive "nothingness" in the SC?
I haven't experimented with "flying sidecar" i read in the owners book, that I should learn it to know what it feels like and what to expect when it does happen.

thanks, Mike

I recommend you try to take a class, particularly if you would like to see what flying a sidecar is like. Weaning yourself from ballast is a good exercise to see how handling is affected but isn't necessarily a goal to be sought after. The goal should be to make the rig well balanced as possible, handling well and matched to you driving skill level. If that is accomplished with no ballast, great. If it requires some ballast that is ok too. You may find that some tools and a jack in the trunk is perfect, you may find you want a little more weight to keep the sidecar stable. What ever works best is the goal you should aim for.

lots of good info here, i'll take some out and move it back inside the triangle. maybe 50-60# total to simulate my boy riding with.
this is good print and save thread..
thanks
Mike

EDIT: I have a 2006 Ural Tourist, red with black pinstrips..

"In general, place your ballast low, toward the rear outside corner of a triangel drawn between the contact patches of the three tires. Use a little more to start out with and drive conservatively while you find the sweet spot for your rigs handling and your comfort zone. Beginners should continue driving conservatively a little longer than they think they need to."

It occurs to me I may have been a little unclear. The lines drawn between the contact patches of your tires are the "tip over lines" Weight- ballast, luggage, passengers- is best placed inside the triangle formed by these lines.

Ballast designed to prevent the sidecar from lifting in a right hand turn( assuming a right side mounted sidecar) works best when placed near the sidecar wheel *inside* this triangle.

The rear tipover line, between the sidecar wheel and the rear wheel of the bike, is the least unstable on most sidecars. Placing weight behind this line can make it difficult to hold a straight line going up steep hills, particularly in the snow or mud, and can make steering input less effective, particularly on accelleration or going up hill, but you are unlikely to flip over it. Putting ballast in the trunk on or just behind the rear tipover line is usually fine.

Originally written by RedMenace on 5/31/2006 9:08 AM

Putting ballast in the trunk on or just behind the rear tipover line is usually fine.

yeah, I was just going to comment on your statement 'till I read the last line.
Almost all SC's trunks are located BEHIND the 'triangle' you describe. most weight is [should] be placed in the outer rear corner of the trunk.
or else under the SC near the outer axle. works fine, altho I dont need any ballast at all with my MV FII SC.

Well the guys that know what they are doing have already replied to you. As a newbie I can tell you what I did. I got one of the 5 gal folding water jugs, Wal-mart camping, I think. That adds a little over 40# that way I could take it down a bit at a time. That way no broken sand bags to clean up. You are right on a Sunday morning ride is not the way to go through your first “flying car.” There is only one way to know that. Lol. I am now down to tools and some other thing in the trunk. I am thinking about a car battery but that has to do with other things also.

Richard

Ride Safe

Hi TraprMike,

As a newbie myself, riding a 2006 Ural Patrol, I would only like to just 'second the motion' that Red Menace suggested, specifically, take a class if you can. I just did this in May (thanks Red Menace!! You are great!!) and I feel it really helped me in the confidence department, and I now am comfortable IF the rig flies (which has yet to happen on the road, and honestly, I'm no 'hot rodder' so it's not my intention that it ever will happen, BUT...) Anyway, the class with an Instructor is a great experience. The book is a good start...

OK, I'm convinced. I live in northern California, where can I attend classes? I am tired of putting 120 lbs worth of barbells in the car when my wife won't ride with me. Peter

The Adventure Sidecar classes are probably the closest to you. Our next available class is August 12~13; details are here:

http://adventuresidecar.com/training06/training06.htm

http://adventuresidecar.com/registration.htm

You can call Hood River Community Education at (541)386-2055 to get signed up.

Evergreen Safety Council has a list of schools nationwide, but I don't think there is anything in California right now.
http://www.esc.org/

It does seem strange that in a state so intent on vehicle standards and restrictions as California there are no specific licensing requirements for three wheeled vehicles. That's the main reason there is a lack of organized sidecar and trike training available there. That and the small ratio of sidecars and trikes vs 2 wheelers. They treat them as automobiles.

Dang, I can't even split lanes there with my rig.

Lonnie

Depends on how high you fly that chair!
Sorry Lonnie, I just couldn't pass that one up. I put my Tour Tank on the luggage rack on the Velorex, makes a difference when it's full and with the tan cover on the sidecar it looks pretty good. Nobody has guessed it is a fuel tank and not a bed roll yet. I better quit now before I get yelled at.

David

Originally written by Loo4two on 6/7/2006 8:39 PM

I put my Tour Tank on the luggage rack on the Velorex, makes a difference when it's full and with the tan cover on the sidecar it looks pretty good. Nobody has guessed it is a fuel tank and not a bed roll yet.
David

photos?