Hey everybody, I am toying with the idea of getting a rig together to replace my 07 Buell XB12STT. The thing is this, I have the bike and a dog and I am crazy about both. A sidecar seems like it could solve my problems but I know absolutely nothing about them. What bikes work best with a sidecar....what to look for....what to expect..everything is new to me. I know that I don't want anything to big, bulky or expensive to start with. I was thinking along the lines of 800-1100cc's(VX800-Shadow Sabre). I would prefer to buy a complete rig just for the convenience so please offer your knowledge.-Brad
Brad,
Most 800-1100cc Japanese cruisers make good tugs and are plentiful. The naked bikes are easiest to mount a sidecar to.
Buying an older Japanese bike or complete rig is a wise choice to start out your sidecaring experience. With a minimal outlay you can have a dependable tug and if you are handy with tools a used sidecar can be mounted to it for your learning curve. Later when you know what your actual needs are for a sidecar rig that suits your particular style and type of riding you can upgrade what you have or sell the rig and apply the funds to a more appropriate combo. Odds are the first rig you have will not be the ideal ride for you so it is prudent not to go all out with the first attempt and toss your money away on something that you may not be able to enjoy or sell easily if you aren't satisfied with it later.
This class of bike is plentiful and affordable and the earlier models clear back to the 70's are quite powerful and dependable for sidecar use.
Used sidecars and combos show up here quite often in the Classifieds.
Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars
You can pick up a used Russian Ural for under $8k complete with sidecar and lots of practical features. That's what I use to run around with my dog, and Grandkids, and have for several years. I have the model with reverse and two wheel drive (both the Patrol and the Gear-Up have these features). They are not refined bikes but you can take them on gravel and in the snow, no problem. They travel down the road at 55-65 MPH no problem.
Dale
Mt Vernon IA
A NEWBIE's Practical Answer
There are a great many experts on this site that know more about sidecars than I ever will, but let me give you a newbie’s answer. I am also sure that I will receive hate mail from lots of folks on this site but if you are a newbie and thinking about installing a sidecar, this post may help.
Several years ago, I drove a friend’s bike with a sidecar. I immediately knew I wanted one but I didn’t know where to start. After lots of research, I think I came up with the right combination for me -- And I emphasize, the right combination for me.
Like everyone else thinking about a sidecar, I started by looking at Urals. Urals are specifically designed for sidecars. However a basic Ural costs over $13,500.
Ural have recently improved the quality of their bikes, but it is still old technology requiring frequent repairs and maintenance.
After looking at the Ural, my 2006 C50c started to look like a good choice. Unlike the Ural, the C50 is very reliable. Based on the manufacturer’s specification, the C50 has the Ural beat. The Ural has 40 hp, 38 ft lbs of torque, likes to cruise at 45 mph and doesn’t like hot weather. The C50 has 53 hp, 50 ft lbs of torque, likes to cruise (with a sidecar) at 55 to 65 mph, and can live with hot weather. (I suspect that the marketing departments at both Ural and Suzuki have inflated their respective horsepower and torque numbers.)
How much does it cost to put a sidecar onto a C50? Putting a sidecar on a bike is not cheap. But installing a sidecar on a C50 is still a lot less expensive than buying a Ural. Properly installing a sidecar on a C50 costs between $5,000 and $6,000. You might be able to do it for a little less, and you can certainly do it for more. The money breakout is as follows – you can buy a new 2008 C50 for about $6,200. If you pay $6,000 for the sidecar and installation, the total cost is $12,200 - $1,300 less than a Ural. (All of these numbers exclude tax and other state fees). If you start with a two-year-old bike as I did, the cost is by definition less.
There are a number of good sidecar manufacturers and installers. Ultimately I chose Claude Stanley at C Stanley Motorsports in Pennsylvania. I chose Claude for a number of reasons. He is very well known and respected in the sidecar world. In addition, he seems to make a good product. I found him to be very knowledgeable and honest.
There are three basic components to a sidecar - the body of the sidecar, the chassis on which the sidecar rests and the system for mounting the sidecar to the bike.
BODY - Claude offers both fiberglass and metal sidecar bodies There a number of very nice fiberglass sidecar bodies on the market. However, fiberglass sidecar manufacturers can only offer a handful of models and the rigid molding process does not allow them to modify a sidecar body. Metal sidecar fabricators can offer a number of different models and can easily modify each sidecar.
In my opinion, a metal sidecar is stronger than a fiberglass sidecar, more easily adapted to accessories, more easily repaired and lasts longer. I chose an extra wide Ural style sidecar. The Ural style sidecar is copy of a 1930’s Steib sidecar commonly attached to BMWs. Passengers find this sidecar very comfortable and easy to get in and out of.
CHASSIS - A number of people have told me that Claude makes one of the best sidecar chassis in the industry. It appears that he can install any number of different sidecar bodies on to the same chassis. Unlike the Urals, Claude’s chassis is a modern chassis with modern suspension. I should add that a number of other folks on this site also offer very good chassis.
MOUNTING FRAME - Claude (and others) offers heavy duty mounts and sub-frame for the C50. It attaches the sidecar to the frame in four places. This reduces the stress on the frame and improves handling. A number of companies offer “universal” sub-frames or generic sub-frames and mounting struts adopted to a C-50. You want to stay away from generic mounts and purchase a mounting sys
Very nice outfit you've put together. I can tell you did a great amount of research prior to choosing your bike. I thought I'd offer up the Ural idea as they are good beginner sidecar outfit (also, they are much more reliable than conventional wisdom suggests), plus you said you didn't want anything expensive. An 06 or 07 Ural can be had, barely used for under $8,000. But then "expensive" is a subjective term; I have 27K in my Goldwing with Champion sidecar....and I could keep adding!
Your bike is a beauty. Enjoy it....Be safe on the road. And when you wish you had reverse, think of the old school Russians!
Brad,
I'm a newbie myself and all I can say is "do it". Whatever you do, just do it.
My dog has been riding in a modified Harley Tourpak with me and my wife since he was two months old (4 years). Four weeks ago I added a 2008 Harley TLE sidecar to my 1998 Harley Electra Glide Standard. It is a absolute Hoot!! Fred (the dog) is more comfortable. My wife is more comfortable. Everybody is happier and life is good. Most of the time Fred and my wife ride in the sidecar together. When my wife can't go somewhere Fred insists on going in the sidecar by himself.
The reason I decided on the Harley/Harley combination was 1)I already had the Harley Electra Glide (with 60,000 miles on it now). and 2) The Harley sidecar is designed to bolt right up to the Harley frame. It does not require re-engineering the mounting brackets. Just bolt it on, line it up and go...well, not really. Actually, I paid the dealer to mount it for me. It also comes standard with a disc brake, windshield, tonneau cover, etc.
Here are links to some pics of my (oops, Fred's) rig:
http://www.pbase.com/tmuilenberg/image/102584954
http://www.pbase.com/tmuilenberg/image/101813746
http://www.pbase.com/tmuilenberg/image/102584949
http://www.pbase.com/tmuilenberg/image/102584942
Good luck with whatever you decide,
Terry
Originally written by Glendowery on 9/9/2008 11:30 AM
A NEWBIE's Practical Answer
*** I am also sure that I will receive hate mail from lots of folks on this site but if you are a newbie and thinking about installing a sidecar, this post may help.-- And I emphasize, the right combination for me.
...Urals are specifically designed for sidecars. However a basic Ural costs over $13,500.
...Ural have recently improved the quality of their bikes, but it is still old technology requiring frequent repairs and maintenance.
...Unlike the Ural, the C50 is very reliable. (I suspect that the marketing departments at both Ural and Suzuki have inflated their respective horsepower and torque numbers.)
I hope this helps.
Your post does help a newbie a bit, but I just don't agree with all of the specific points in it. Not hate mail for your post in the least, but I do view some of your thoughts as incorrect about Urals in particular, so I'd choose to view them with a bit of a grain of salt, myself. I speak as an actual Ural owner though and not just as someone who once thought of purchasing one.
Buying a used Ural is not anywhere near as costly as purchase of a new one, so I suppose you were only speaking only of new ones. The warranty is great on new Urals (frequently is still in effect on used ones as well), so a used one or new one is not a bad consideration to make, if you believe it can meet your personal needs. Unfortunately, prices will continue to go up on Urals or any other make, especially if you start comparing costs of adding a hack or getting something that comes complete and has a metal tug as opposed to a fiberglass one. Pricing is an interesting thing to ponder (I believe IMZ is overpricing their rigs, myself), but no one but the company will control that issue very much. Supply and demand may dictate, and believe me, IMZ is not presently meeting their demand.
You don't have to be a "professional wrench" by any means in order to own one or keep it running well. Your opinion or take on that issue is something I'd totally disagree with you on, but I would not disagree that the issue of such needs to be thought about. I don't mean you won't ever have to do routine maintenance, but for the most part, even that maintenance is something that can easily be done by a low-skilled novice with ease. Nothing made (no make or model known to us) does not require some maintenance, so I see that statement as somewhat inaccurate. The Ural I own has not required anything more that what is normal for any other rig, and that is with me being far less than a professional wrench monkey. 🙂
I'll add that if you don't live near a dealer and probably won't see such for quite a while, then that is something that can be a real question to consider or ponder over in thoughts of making a Ural purchase. Ural dealerships are not in every state, and even if they were, that does not mean that all Ural dealerships are great to begin with. However, I hear lots of stories of other makes who have less than stellar dealership service and such.
I am not so sure old technoloy is a very bad thing in the least, as you imply. I put a ton of mileage on my old Model A, when many newer cars were not able to transverse the same roads I drove on (I hit the super slabs and side roads on about a 30/60 basis with it). When I visit other motorcycle sites, I often see more mechanical, electrical and maintenance problems than anythng I view at a Ural site. Most problems with a Ural are generally solved by trying not to over think the issue in the first place. Since 2000, the quality of the make has steadfastly improved. It is much more common to find the "foil" (Ural owners) addressing which cafe to eat at more often than addressing problems with engine failure, tranny failure or such. It may be old technology, but it is simplistic and easy enough for the average Joe to deal with and repair. Get into computers and such of the new technology and it is a whole different matter, I suspect. (Interesting thought:
There are definite advantages to buying an already road worthy rig in that you can get a better price, the details have already been haggled out by someone else and you can start riding immediately. Most gas and go bikes today are reliable, have a strong dealer showing and parts, both mechanical and accessory, are easily found.
To address the dealer issue: Not all dealers give excellent service but with the generic Japanese cruiser there's a multitude of dealers to choose from. This may not be the case with smaller brands and in the case of Ural not only do not all states have dealers but those that do may boast only one which may be several hundred miles from you. Some dealers will take on multiple smaller brands such as Moto-Guzzi, Ducati, Royal Enfield, Triumph and the like. Whether this guarantees service for your bike depends upon the dealer.
I live in Dallas, Texas. Buying a rig not capable of highway cruising would have been foolish for me. Just crossing Dallas alone is often 30 miles of high speed travel and I'm as often as not doing more than just going across town. My Yamaha V Star 1100 is solid as a rock on the interstates and highways and meets with or exceeds prevailing traffic speeds with no problem and for long periods of time.
The Suzuki would be a similar bike when mounted with a sidecar.
Check out what's available as a complete rig before building. You might find something that's right for you at a price you can afford. Don't just settle for whatever is nearest you either. My rig was in Murray KY when I bought it. The ride home was only 14 hours at highway speeds (652.5 miles). You can cover a lot of miles on the right bike in less time than you imagine.
Most of all, do lots of homework before committing to a purchase. Decide what you want to do with the rig, how much is acceptable as payment, what features you want (not all features are available or workable on all sidecars) and constantly search the classifieds. Contact owners with bikes for sale and get good clear pictures of the bike in question. Think about it for 6 months before purchasing and use that time to read everything you can on every brand of bike and sidecar you think you might be interested in. Join forums and ask questions first before purchase.
Originally written by Tomcat101147 on 9/9/2008 7:41 PM
I live in Dallas, Texas. Buying a rig not capable of highway cruising would have been foolish for me. Just crossing Dallas alone is often 30 miles of high speed travel and I'm as often as not doing more than just going across town.
There is a Ural dealership in Grand Prarie, but even though he was very close by normal Ural standards, I didn't purchase from him when I bought my used Troyka and lived in Arlington at the time. Actually, I have had few dealings with him and I frequently purchase items from a dealership in FLA, which provides quicker service for parts and such.
My initial ride on my Ural was from Carrollton to Arlington, so I got initiated with toll roads, road rage and high speed highways around the Dallas area right from the get go. I don't think I was ever as happy as when we moved to Abilene, Tx. and got away from drivers who remained a hair's breath from your tail at all times. I had the hardest time in breaking in the rig when it was new, as it was actually difficult to find an area sutiable to ride, which didn't involve hitting a super slab highway to get there. I agree totally in your thoughts about a better bike in your situation for the Dallas area. Here in Abilene it is a totally different driving experience though, but the Dallas area still shivers me timbers in thinking of traffic there. 🙂
Pay attention to local papers and ads. Nearly every sidecar I've purchased has come from a "Wanted" ad either in a local free paper or through Craigslist.org. In the last two cases, I posted a free ad on Craigslist and received 25 or 30 responses each time. Though I was looking for only a sidecar, I had a number of messages trying to sell complete rigs and some for sidecar parts.
In 1964, when I was just a young man, my friends and I drove an old Ford across the country. We started in California right before Thanksgiving and hoped to make it to Maine before Christmas. As those of you living in the middle of the country know, the weather in November is at best uncertain. By the time we reached Oklahoma, it started to snow.
Running the windshield wipers and the defroster fan at full speed was too much for the old Ford and, in short order, the battery charging light flashed bright yellow. In a small town nearby, I bought a rebuilt generator from a tractor and grain store. Outside in the snow and with a pair of screw-drivers and two sets of pliers, we hammered and coaxed the rusted old generator from its brackets. The new generator slide into place and for good measure we replaced the belt with a new Farm-All tractor belt. Several young women stopped to watch the antics of what they could only believe were sophisticated world travelers. When we finished the repair, my friends and I debated the wisdom of driving through the night but the young women offered us a place to stay and all was well.
Now you ask, what does this have to do with sidecars and newbies? If a Ural broke down on the side of the road, you could probably fix it with a pair of screwdrivers, pliers and maybe a hammer. Urals are like my old Ford. If my “gas and go” Suzuki cruiser with EFI and micro-circuits broke down on the side of the road, I would probably have to call a tow truck. This would seem to argue for buying a Ural. However, my Suzuki cruiser with EFI and micro–circuits always starts and never breaks down.
It all comes down to how you derive pleasure. If you enjoy the thrill of repairing a sickly bike and frequent maintenance, buy a Ural. Urals have soul; but no matter. If you just like to ride, buy a Japanese bike.
Although I am just a newbie, I quickly figured out that poorly mounted and aligned rigs seem to get passed from one new sidecarist to another. It should come as no surprise to anyone on this forum that a great many new sidecar owners become discouraged because their sidecars are poorly mounted and aligned. These sidecarists soon sell their rigs to other new sidecarists and the cycle continues.
If you buy a rig, you should purchase it from someone who understands how to mount and align the sidecar. I choose Claude Stanley because he has a great reputation but there are a number of other talented folks on this forum.
One thing I've noticed about Urals is that their owners are devoted. One friend of mine is a perfect example. He went from a Harley to a Ural, then to a Guzzi, back to a Ural. Then he decided he was too old for motorcycles. That lasted about a year. Last time I saw him he had another new Ural. Another friend has a beautiful Virago/Motorvation rig, but whenever I see him out and about he's on his Ural. Yet a third has a 5 or 6 year old Harley rig and a Ural about the same age. In the six years I've known him, I've only seen him on the Harley twice.
I've never owned or ridden one, but there is obviously an appeal for some people.
Originally written by hops2899 on 9/1/2008 3:26 PM
Hey everybody, I am toying with the idea of getting a rig together to replace my 07 Buell XB12STT. The thing is this, I have the bike and a dog and I am crazy about both. A sidecar seems like it could solve my problems but I know absolutely nothing about them. What bikes work best with a sidecar....what to look for....what to expect..everything is new to me. I know that I don't want anything to big, bulky or expensive to start with. I was thinking along the lines of 800-1100cc's(VX800-Shadow Sabre). I would prefer to buy a complete rig just for the convenience so please offer your knowledge.-Brad
Hi Brad,
I'd missed this thread earlier, but now I know where the missive in support of the "lowly" Ural comes from...
SO, my answer is this:
Take an S/TEP class. Go to some rallies and talk w/owners. Find out if this is really what you think it is, THEN buy what you want. If you don't include the S/TEP and face-to-face experience, you haven't done your homework... and could wind-up disappointed.
That's my story, an' I'm stickin' to it.
8^D
Originally written by Pat Huey on 9/10/2008 6:15 AM
My initial ride on my Ural was from Carrollton to Arlington, so I got initiated with toll roads, road rage and high speed highways around the Dallas area right from the get go.
I-30 is a cake walk if you can maintain 80 mph or better. If not then it's better to find another route. I haven't tonned up the rig yet but it'll do 90+ that I know of. It just depends on where you need to drive. Dallas is a highway place and way less road friendly than Ft.Worth.
Carrollton to Arlington is down I-35 to I-30 and west. Not two of the more forgiving roads in the area. You must have come in Dallas North Tollway, always a fun piece of road. I was raised here. It's not for the faint hearted driver.
Yes, as a first time experience, the toll road was no fun. I-30 ain't a piece of cake. Even in a cage, I have seen folk cut across three lanes in order to make a turn off, right in front of us. They risked their lives and others just to make that turn off a few miliseconds ahead of someone else. Road rage and sheer stupidity is a common companion on that particular road. I guess it is the same for most roads in the Dallas area as well. Off and on I have lived in or near Dallas for many years, but as I said, I am very happy to have moved into a more ridable area for my Ural in Abilene. Not that you don't still have to be warry of the crazies out there, but not anywhere as much.
