Originally written by Joyce on 10/19/2008 9:41 AM
(/QUOTE) I know that the USCA does training and that helps in select areas but, as I said there's not much going on near me.
The USCA doesn't do any training. This is a long and complicated story but there was a separate safety program developed by the founders of the USCA called the USCA Sidecar Safety Program. While many members thought it was a part of the USCA because of the name it never was. The initials USCA didn't stand for anything so we were told. That program was sold to Evergreen several years ago and revised to become the S/TEP program that is being taught nationwide now.
Here's the nationwide schedule and locations. My daughter has been trying to get in to the Milwaukee class for a number of years, but they are always full. http://www.esc.org/step_national_schedule.php
"No one is saying that a person should be banned unless they can get some formal sidecar riding and safety training. As a prerequisite a person must know how to operate a solo motorcycle, however"
Not true in Washington State where there is 3 levels of endorsement, only 2 of which require solo motorcycle skills.
"Arnold Schwartzenegger, had an accident with his late-model Harley-Davidson sidecar rig."
I believe Arnie was on a URAL outfit at the time.
Lonnie
Originally written by Hack'n on 10/19/2008 1:14 PM
"No one is saying that a person should be banned unless they can get some formal sidecar riding and safety training. As a prerequisite a person must know how to operate a solo motorcycle, however"
Not true in Washington State where there is 3 levels of endorsement, only 2 of which require solo motorcycle skills.
"Arnold Schwartzenegger, had an accident with his late-model Harley-Davidson sidecar rig."
I believe Arnie was on a URAL outfit at the time.
Lonnie
Wisconsin also has a "three wheel only" license as does, I believe, most other states.
Originally written by gnm109 on 10/19/2008 10:19 AM
As a prerequisite a person must know how to operate a solo motorcycle, however.
I'm not really sure that skill on a solo is helpful. It seems to me that I spend as much concentration 'unlearning' solo skills as I do learning hack skills. Might have been easier not having any two-wheel experience at all. That may just be me, however...
Originally written by Hack'n on 10/19/2008 12:14 PM
"No one is saying that a person should be banned unless they can get some formal sidecar riding and safety training. As a prerequisite a person must know how to operate a solo motorcycle, however"
Not true in Washington State where there is 3 levels of endorsement, only 2 of which require solo motorcycle skills.
"Arnold Schwartzenegger, had an accident with his late-model Harley-Davidson sidecar rig."
I believe Arnie was on a URAL outfit at the time.
Lonnie
In my opinion, a person should know a lot about motorcycles before riding a sidecar. There are issues of shifting, clutch, brakes, etc. I don't care about Washington......at all. In fact, why would a person who has no experience or exposure to motorcycles even want a sidecar? That's my statement based on many years of experience. To put someone on a sidecar rig who has absolutelty no expeience on motorcycles makes absolutely no sense.
It's interesting that you should sping a little known exception on me from Washington State. So they have three levels of endorsement and only two of the three require solo motorcycle. Those three levels would be graded on IQ, I presume?
It's also interesting to discover that USCA does no safety training. Goodness gracious. That's simply asmazing.
But thanks for correcting me again. Ive come to believe that I can't do without you. By the way, the paper reported Arnie's sidecar rig as a Harley-Davidson. If you have a link perhaps you can further contradict me. Maybe I should be pre-contradicted so you won't have to reply to my posts anymore.
By the way, the first link below is from Google Groups. One of the posters references a newspaper article in which it was reported that Arnie was riding a "hacked Harley". The second link says the same thing.
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/streetsurvival/arnold_schwarzeneggar_crash/index.html
Can't help but chuckle at that one; sounds just like my mom. She insists, and insists often, that motorcycles in general, with or without sidecars, make no sense, and she cannot understand the attraction.
No offense intended Gaylord. We all make "miskates".
I've been wrong before, I even believed in GW once long ago.
The only pix I've seen of the esteemed Guv on a rig was a URAL. A Patrol if memory serves me right. If wrong, I stand corrected.
Now as to the rest of it:
"In my opinion, a person should know a lot about motorcycles before riding a sidecar. There are issues of shifting, clutch, brakes, etc. I don't care about Washington......at all. In fact, why would a person who has no experience or exposure to motorcycles even want a sidecar? That's my statement based on many years of experience. To put someone on a sidecar rig who has absolutelty no expeience on motorcycles makes absolutely no sense."
Many of our clients are not able to operate a solo motorcycle due to: Stature limitations, Paralysis, Amputations, Age related physical problems, Medical limitations, Balance problems, the list goes on.
To put them in the wind makes all the sense in the world to me.
"It's interesting that you should sping a little known exception on me from Washington State. So they have three levels of endorsement and only two of the three require solo motorcycle. Those three levels would be graded on IQ, I presume?"
Same answer, you presume incorrectly, the third group cannot support a solo bike for the driving test. The three levels are: two wheel solo bike only operator, three wheel motorcycle only operator and two or three wheel endorsement.
with gramps riding til he was 82 yrs old, a mom and late father, and several uncles who rode,..and getting my first one at age 4,..I could not imagine having to explain the attraction to bikes and riding, sidecar or 2 wheeler,..my sympathies to you Bill,..hehe...my daughter was a hack rider at four,..and even she begs for a ride,...hehe crawf.
Oh, heck, I'm used to it. She's been saying that stuff since I was a teenager, and I'll turn fifty next February.
Originally written by gnm109 on 10/19/2008 2:43 PM
In my opinion, a person should know a lot about motorcycles before riding a sidecar. There are issues of shifting, clutch, brakes, etc. I don't care about Washington......at all. In fact, why would a person who has no experience or exposure to motorcycles even want a sidecar? That's my statement based on many years of experience. To put someone on a sidecar rig who has absolutelty no expeience on motorcycles makes absolutely no sense.
Why would a person who has no experience or exposure to sidecars even want a motorcycle?
That's the question at least one of my kids would ask.
When my daughter decided to get a motorcycle I suggested the MSF classes. She checked, then told me they did not offer sidecar training. She has ridden with me and others on both two and three wheels and had no interest in owning a bike that didn't have a sidecar attached. Now her son is fast approaching his 16th birthday and even though a number of his friends have sport bikes and cruisers, he also wants a sidecar. You have an opinion, but so do they. What makes them arbitrarily wrong?
Jennifer now knows how to ride on two wheels, but only because a boyfriend bullied her. Now he's gone and she's preparing to get back on three.
Originally written by bill_powell on 10/19/2008 1:15 AM
Oh, heck, I'm used to it. She's been saying that stuff since I was a teenager, and I'll turn fifty next February.
Brought back memories of my mom, she didn't like the idea of two wheels, I said "The lord has my number, if its up I guess he makes the call" her response was great "You don't have to promote the idea" Interesting thing is that on her 85th birthday she said, "are you ever going to give me a ride on that thing?" That was her one and only ride after watching me ride for 40+ years.
Back to post, in Minnesota three wheels are looked at as a motorcycle, however treated as an exception for testing. If you have a MC endorsement your grandfathered into three wheels. If you don't have a MC endorsement you are allowed to test out by taking the written MC test and a simplified driving test on three wheels to show you can handle it much as you would a car. Your are then given a restricted MC endorsement three wheels only. Its intent is to make room for the people who will never ride two wheels.
Fred
There's recent thread on Pashnit.com wherein a young man mentioned wanting to learn to drive a sidecar rig and then take his SO and an expected infant on an extended tour.
I was the only person who offered palpable reasons why it might be impractical. Most of the other replies soundly castigated the young for being "Stupid" including one who rather arrogantly stated that it "takes many years" to learn to drive a rig, adding that when the fellow really learned to drive a rig the sidecar wheel would spend more time in the air than on the ground.
We are not practicing some sort of mystic art here. We ride them for many different reasons but mostly because we want to. Taking others for rides or basic instruction is a lot better than having them buy a sidecar rig and try to learn on their own. Many who do often meet unmovable objects soon after they start riding (i.e. curbs, shrubs, etc.) or they scare themselves silly.
Solo bike training is not a necessity but it does give familiarity to be able to handle the controls. In that respect it's useful.
If driving a sidecar rig was only available for those with X amount of experience or X amount of training then many fewer MC licenses would be issued for all types of bikes.
Training and education courses along with MC awareness programs are partially federally funded but training schools are dependant upon registrations for longevity and solvency and sidecars are a nominal rarity. At a recent benefit run I attended, 700 riders showed up. Only about a dozen trikes and sidecars attended and there were more trikes than sidecars. That was a ride that drew riders from all over North-Eastern Texas and surrounding environs. There are probably fewer S/TEP courses than we'd like because there's simply not enough riders attending to make it worthwhile and/or not enough instructors to teach them.
Those at the benefit run are the "only" sidecars I've seen in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area since February of this year when I brought mine home from KY. Dallas alone has a population in excess of 1.7 million people.
To deny others the privilege of sidecar ownership and use based upon training many of us don't have and can't get is unrealistic, selfish and arrogant.
We, as riders, are concerned for the safety aspect of riding, not only for sidecars but all types of riding, however, how many of us are actively involved in sharing our sport, either legislatively or by some other method? Making it harder and offering criticism is not conducive to encouraging others to share what we enjoy. Sidecaring should not be a closed club to those who wish to learn what we know.
Motorcycling is already a minority expression of preference in mode of transport. Making sidecars and trikes an even more restrictive minority is counter-productive. The restrictions that people are encouraging, such as mandatory training, advanced testing and statements such as "It takes MANY YEARS to learn to drive a sidecar" (direct quote) harm all of us rather than just those new to the sport. If these restrictions get written into law then we're "ALL" in trouble rather than just those select few who wish to join our sport. It behooves us to encourage others rather than retreat into cliquishness.
Stop pointing the finger and point the way instead!
thankfully up here, a sidecar carries the same importance as a saddle bag or a back rest,...it is viewed only as an accessory to the bike,.. it is the "peer preasure" from the riding population that brought in legitimate motorcycle CMA santioned training classes at the local college, it is totally optional, and works well with the new graduated licensing that has been put into place. that said,..we still have several squids a year flipping their GSXR1000's on their backs, or slamming into buicks, through inexperience....the availability of sidecar "exposure" to those that wish to pilot one, be it rookie or veteran,...could help to solidify wheather sidecars are for them, or not,..and bring awareness of what is involved in handeling changes and braking before ventured onto city streets,..I was very fortunate, however I too, still cut my teeth on the roads, in very stressfull circumstances,.....not the ideal place to learn....crawf.
Eloquent and accurate. Thank you Lynn.
What SidecarMike said.
I'm a firm believer that we really can learn to do lots of things if we have the desire and put our minds to it. Is teaching oneself more difficult? Yes. More dangerous? Often the case.
Ever have the chance to observe a newbie soldier learn to drive a Tank? Now that's entertainment! Crazy, frightening entertainment, but entertainment nonetheless.
For your entertainment, here's a shot I took from my driver's seat around 1979:
Good times...
