Hi Folks,
Interesting. When I got my endorsement, *then* they told me about an available course. I flatter myself that I can ride--I have about 20 years, off and on, of experience with three wheels, but you can always learn something, right? I would have thought they would have told me about the class before I got the endorsement...
The other thing: I wouldn't assume that just because someone else has a sidecar they will be at home on yours. My friend Sonny and I met up in Ritzville, Washington, of all places, and he needed to go to the store, so I said, 'Take my bike!" We were both riding sidecar rigs, but mine was my 1977 650 Yamaha and mid 1960's chair, and his rig is a 2007 BMW 650 single and a Ural/"Jawa" chair. Watching and listening to him go down the road and navigate the first corner was enough: I headed for a cold beer! Little things like a quick throttle and a 30 year-old clutch make a world of difference, plus of course my lean-out is different than is his, so that's one more thing to think about.
Lots of stuff, all at once. (Needless to say, I didn't try his rig......I know my limits!)
And, having said that, I'm off for the weekend, to get one more camping trip in before Winter gets here! Here's hoping for some Sun!
Good info here. I don't have a sidecar. In fact, I've never seen one up close. For some reason I have a strong desire to add a sidecar to one of my bikes. I know it depends on the person, but how hard is it for an experienced rider of both to move back and forth from a bike to a rig?
Originally written by Tugboat on 10/17/2008 9:31 PM
Good info here. I don't have a sidecar. In fact, I've never seen one up close. For some reason I have a strong desire to add a sidecar to one of my bikes. I know it depends on the person, but how hard is it for an experienced rider of both to move back and forth from a bike to a rig?
People do it every day. There are definitely differences, but most sidecarists own naked bikes too.
It's like moving from a stick shift 4x4 truck to a car with an automatic transmission.
As soon as you start off it's competely a different feeling.
Lonnie
I like the analogy of a 4x4 truck with standard shift to a car with an a auto for the difference between a sidecar and 2 wheel bike. For me..... Aside from not wanting the maintanence requirements of two bikes I was concerned about screwing up, jumping back and forth so I sold my 2 wheeler.
I have also been known to jump on the brake of an automatic vehicle trying to Shift it. I admit I belong to SOBB. Stupid Old Biker Bas___d.
I remember ( back to original post ) trying to teach my brother to ride, did all the right stuff we went to a quiet car park & spent a whole morning until he was conviced he had the hang of it. next day he wanted to fly solo, he did, clutch out chair up across the road wrecking a fence & parked in the middle of neighbors veg patch, he's never been on a rig since & think's i'm bonkers
I really don't thnk a person should be permitted to operate a sidecar unless they have some training for doing so. There's a lot at stake and it's not something that you should do casually. It's also not "intuitive".
My father once told me a story that's sort of appropriate although it's about a motorcycle not a sidecar rig. Many years ago my father was a young man in Chicago. Like many other people, he rode a motorcycle because they were inexpensive and he couldn't yet afford a car. His boss where he worked kept asking my father if he could take a ride on my father's motorcycle. Finally my father relented.
The boss didn't even make it around the block. He ran into a parked car and broke some bones. To finish the story, when the boss got back from the hospital, the first thing he did was to fire my father.
So the moral of the story is: don't let an untrained person drive your vehicle. You might get fired. LOL.
Originally written by gnm109 on 10/18/2008 10:03 AM
I really don't thnk a person should be permitted to operate a sidecar unless they have some training for doing so. There's a lot at stake and it's not something that you should do casually. It's also not "intuitive".
My father once told me a story that's sort of appropriate although it's about a motorcycle not a sidecar rig. Many years ago my father was a young man in Chicago. Like many other people, he rode a motorcycle because they were inexpensive and he couldn't yet afford a car. His boss where he worked kept asking my father if he could ride take a ride on my father's motorcycle. Finally my father relented.
The boss didn't even make it around the block. He ran into a parked car and broke some bones. To finish the story, when the boss got back from the hospital, the first thing he did was to fire my father.
So the moral of the story is: don't let an untrained person drive your vehicle. You might get fired. LOL.
When I was in High School, before the days of a special license for a motorcycle, I got a job at the local Chevrolet dealership. One of my first tasks was to deliver an Impala station wagon to a customer's home in a neighboring town. I walked out to the service bay and found a Harley sidecar rig clamped to the back bumper with a tow bar. I told them I had never driven a sidecar. The response was, "take it easy on the curves, you'll get the hang of it".
I agree that training is important. My point in an earlier message was that we all need to be willing to take part in that training. Not everyone has an affordable class nearby.
When I bought my first rig, I had to ride it down an alley with a gravel surface with potholes. Every time the sidecar wheel would drop into a hole I steered to the right to try to balance the bike. Luckily the alley was wide enough for me to correct my mistakes and I made it home. I later took my riding buddy out to a stubble field and had him drive around in that field turning, stopping etc. then we went to the highway where he did just fine. My boss at the farm decided to try my rig to show a neighbor how it worked. He started down the driveway and came too close to the tongue of a trailer and the sidecar wheel went up and over it and sending him over the road and nearly hitting a power pole but luckily nothing was damaged but his pride. As far as switching from sidecar back to solo I have both and have no problem at all. Sometimes I wonder if in a critical situation I might react the wrong way. The other day I was driving my Chevy pickup up a particularly winding road that I usually ride the sidecar on and found myself letting off the throttle a little for left handers and leaning toward the drivers door and accelerating and leaning to the right on right handers.
Ralf
Yesterday I sold my Ural and the new owner wanted to drive it before buying. A reasonable request thought I. I learned some things from this post and my last experience and gave him a list of "watch out for's" as well as going with him in the hack. All went well, although I did find being a Hack Monkey with an unexperienced driver a somewhat terrifying experience.
Originally written by SidecarMike on 10/18/2008 2:01 PM
Originally written by gnm109 on 10/18/2008 10:03 AM
I really don't thnk a person should be permitted to operate a sidecar unless they have some training for doing so. There's a lot at stake and it's not something that you should do casually. It's also not "intuitive".
Not everyone has an affordable class nearby.
These seem, to me, to be the two primary points. Training should be required, but it's not readily available for many of us.
Where (and when) I went to High School (Van Nuys, CA) driver's ed was a required course for graduation. Provided at least some training to new drivers.
Where I live now (Tennessee) there is no driver's training, unless you can afford private instruction, and it shows!
However, which solution is better: Ban completely those without training from operating/learning to operate the vehicle, or make the training available? Is there room for compromise?
For a State, this is really a funding issue, and we all know what that means...
Pretty tough call. Glad I don't have to make it.
OK here is my 2 cent worth. I am big on training from someone that knows what they are doing. But just I can drive a sidecar rig does not mean I can teach. I remember trying to teach my mother to drive a car. That said I have help two people get started because here in Florida at the time there was no school.
This last spring there was a new law started that the only way you can get M/C license you have to go to a school. One school saw this coming and when out of state to become S/TEP instructors another school just brought the people from Evergreen down here to train their instructors. Now this last week the state had Evergreen back to do more training. The people that are taking most of the sets in the classes are Trike people and there need to be a full class or the schools go under. If you want S/TEP instructors in your state you just may need the help of the Trike people there is more of them than us.
Originally written by bill_powell on 10/19/2008 6:10 AM
Originally written by SidecarMike on 10/18/2008 2:01 PM
Originally written by gnm109 on 10/18/2008 10:03 AM
I really don't thnk a person should be permitted to operate a sidecar unless they have some training for doing so. There's a lot at stake and it's not something that you should do casually. It's also not "intuitive".
Not everyone has an affordable class nearby.
These seem, to me, to be the two primary points. Training should be required, but it's not readily available for many of us.
Where (and when) I went to High School (Van Nuys, CA) driver's ed was a required course for graduation. Provided at least some training to new drivers.
Where I live now (Tennessee) there is no driver's training, unless you can afford private instruction, and it shows!
However, which solution is better: Ban completely those without training from operating/learning to operate the vehicle, or make the training available? Is there room for compromise?
For a State, this is really a funding issue, and we all know what that means...
Pretty tough call. Glad I don't have to make it.
No one is saying that a person should be banned unless they can get some formal sidecar riding and safety training. As a prerequisite a person must know how to operate a solo motorcycle, however.
In a pinch, a temporary substitute for a formal class would be to take the prospective sidecar rider out for a ride and show them some corners, starting, stopping and general procedure. You could end up at a large parking lot somewhere. Then with some careful instruction, the rider could take a spin slowly and carefully to try some maneuvers under close supervision. Some nice turns, some good starts and stops and the person would at least get a taste of the difference between a solo and a sidecar.
As far as a sidecar class, I've yet to even hear about one where I am in Northern California. There may be one but let's face it, sidecars are few and far between in the world of American motorcycling. It shouldn't be that way but it is. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of rigs I've seen on the road in the last year. It's sad but true. I wish that motorcycle dealers, not just Harley-Davidson, would make sidecars available as an option for prospective owners. A sidecar has a lot to offer besides fuel mileage.
Even the State of California ignores this issue. If you have a motorcycle endorsement on your standard Class C license, that qualifies you to ride a motorcycle. As far as I know, you don't need the motorcycle endorsement to operate the sidecar since it's not a motorcycle as far as the State is Concerned.
This point was emphasized quite emphatically a year or so ago when our Governor, none other than the inimitable Arnold Schwartzenegger, had an accident with his late-model Harley-Davidson sidecar rig. At the scene of the accident, in which he suffered a cut lip and minor bruises, it was discovered that, while he had a regular Class C license, he did not have a motorcycle endorsement The media was all over him for that and they were just about to tar and feather him when someone bothered to read the Vehicle Code. Ha. Lucky for him. LOL
Happily, at least in California, they don't charge you for a separate license plate for the sidecar unit itself. They call it an "accessory" in the California Vehicle Code.
So, in the meantime, a skilled sidecar operator could fill in to help those who might get a sidecar and need some pointers. I'd do it if I knew anyone who was getting a sidecar but I don't. Frankly, however, in this era of political correctiess and litigation, it might tbe hard to find too many people who would do this due to the potential liability. I can imagine getting sued by the new rider that I helped out if he were to hit a tree the following day. I'd probably do it anyway, though. There's just too much fear in our society anymore. It paralyzes people and prevents them from doing things
This is an interesting thread, I am very fortunate that my closest 4 riding buddies and myself all had professional hack training with the local police department instructor when we were hired by a funeral escort company.(15 yrs ago) Even though I am the only one who pilots a hack now,..I have enough miles and history with these guys to toss them the keys at any time,after 4 years in the snow and slush,..you can handle a hack,...that said however; as an officer in a riding club, I wouldn't let those folks near my rig as they couldn't get out of the lot without cleaning the car off of the bike, or killing themselves,...I try to make a point of telling those interested in hacks to seek instruction,...motorcycling is only a fraction of what's required of you to be a good pilot. my 2 cents, crawf.
(/QUOTE) I know that the USCA does training and that helps in select areas but, as I said there's not much going on near me.
The USCA doesn't do any training. This is a long and complicated story but there was a separate safety program developed by the founders of the USCA called the USCA Sidecar Safety Program. While many members thought it was a part of the USCA because of the name it never was. The initials USCA didn't stand for anything so we were told. That program was sold to Evergreen several years ago and revised to become the S/TEP program that is being taught nationwide now.
