Motorcycle and sidecar questions and what should I look for?

For a sidecar tug with your desires a 750cc or larger would suffice. Larger would handle the sidecar better for freeway usage without strain.
I don't think you would need an enclosed sidecar for your area and usage desired. If the weather were too inclement you probably wouldn't be on the road that much anyway. Sidecar passengers are more protected from weather than the driver is.
Most conventional fully framed bikes, cruiser or tour models will accept a sidecar without too much expense. Beemers, sports bikes and Viragos not having full strength tubular frames, will also accept a sidecar but there is an extra expense for sub-frames and body modifications on some to access the frame for sidecar mounts.
A good used first rig may be had for for maybe $6K usually.
Look in the Albums section here and there are hundreds of sidecar rigs depicted. Several of these combos will suit your needs and maybe be within your budget to duplicate.
There are also turnkey rigs here for sale. If your budget can afford a new bike or outfit you might touch base with some of the sidecar dealers or listed installers here for ideas. Most are willing to share their expertise with a phone call or email.
Just like with cars, there is no ideal everything sidecar outfit. Some are best for touring, some for on/off road usage, some are fairly easy to dismount and remount, some are dedicated sidehack rigs. Pick what you will do most and go from there. There are lots of compromises available to have fun with and meet most of your usages.
Look at prices here in the complete rigs for sale. You can go turnkey with an older bike, older bike and new sidecar or all new combo.
I would suggest a used turnkey outfit for starters. Then if you decide you like sidehack piloting and gain some seat time you can upgrade later to whatever fits your riding style and carrying needs. Without experience you don't really know what your needs will be.
Usually it's not that handy to dismount/remount a sidecar. Better to have a solo bike around so you can be riding instead of wrenching.

Lonnie (Hack'n)
Northwest Sidecars

Not that I particularly suggest it, but I was able to take a 650 Yamaha I'd just restored after sitting for 24 years, and I found a mid-1960's sidecar for under $1000.00 and built or modified the brackets necessary to mount it. Point being that it is possible to get your feet wet without laying out a ton of money, and have a lot of fun learning how to mount and pilot a sidecar bike. Of course, I doubt that it is the easiest or swiftest way to get a sidecar rig on the road, but it can be done, and it is an option if you are interested in the mechanics of sidecars, as well as touring with one.

At any rate, I'm having a ball!

Like in kayaking, everyone in cycling has a favorite. My biggest advice in either endeavor is to look, try and try again.

Myself, I got a 499cc Royal Enfield and Cozy Rocket sidecar for $8,300.00 (OTD). I cruise at 55 MPH and get between 60 and 65 MPG on the road. Takes about 20 minutes to remove 5 attachment points.

Sidecar comes with windshield and cockpit cover but a permanently mounted convertible top is available too.

Might want to checkout www.royalenfieldusa.com/index/php

Sorry that it took me so long to reply back.

Thank you for all of the great comments. I will definitely be looking into my different options for a bike/sidecar combo.

Thanks for answering all of my questions.

If you doing this for rising gas prices and high insurance costs- do not do it. When you calculate all $$$ it not much saving. If you do it for fun - do it.

Originally written by VLAD on 7/11/2008 3:13 PM

If you doing this for rising gas prices and high insurance costs- do not do it. When you calculate all $$$ it not much saving. If you do it for fun - do it.

So true! My fuel consumption on the rig is worse than my car!
rig: vstar 1100 with bimmer
car: Honda Fit

My '08 Harley FXDL/563 Tour rig gets over 36 MPG in town about 42 Highway unless I lean on it. 1500cc,s with FI.

Lonnie
Northwest Sidecars

You can certainly save bucks by looking at used rigs. Be it a rig that is factory set, such as a Ural, or a bike with a sidecar added on or installed, such as most are done here, you can save some bucks in the purchase area by getting a used rig instead of a new one. The entry level price of a new rig is just too steep for me, so I am only assuming that it is similar for most folks as well. My assumption may be wrong though.

Gas savings are sort of a different matter, as your driving habits, your specific rit set up, the weight you carry, the overall performance of your bike, and a whole host of other factors can make individual savings or losses enter into the equasion. The fun factor is a true increase though.

Still, all in all, don't purchase any rig with your heart and not with your head. See them in person, speak to actual owners, research more before any purchase decision is made and you are prone to not be caught up with buyer's remorse or feeling a rig didn't meet your expectations. In the past few years, I have seen a ton of new Ural owners gripe over the top speed of the Ural and how it doesn't really lend itself to much change on the power curve. However, almost all of them failed to do the very thing I suggest above, in just understanding what the rig can actually do out of the box vs what your expectations are of the machine. Don't think with your heart and get caught up in the romantic notion that a sidecar rig is like owning a second car and can do all similar things. It isn't enclosed and won't be as comfortable in inclimate weather and such. As another thought, be sure your spouse is really, really up to it. Mine just wasn't, so I got my dogs to be my riding partners over the years. It means my wife does not share in my riding adventures, but I try to punish her by me not sharing in her shopping adventures at the local Ross Department store or such. 🙂 I have seen spouses who try to accomodate the male, but the wife really has no interest or joy in baing a hack monkey. It isn't for everyone, after all.

Any rate, think through your decision making prior to plopping down the bucks. Read and study a bit more in order to get a good feel for what you want to do. Look at various rig set ups and don't think that just anyone can really pin point the best rig for you. Most rigs are unique to the owner and you sort of have to determine what it is you really are expecting. Compare the installed rigs vs the Ural or others and see what you think fits best for you. If you really have the dough and desire for a brand new out of the box sidecar outfit an don't want to opt for a used one, then spend your dough wisely. Sidecars, just as motorcycles, are generally considered something less than a necessity; a big boy toy. 🙂

Some other consdierations: My Ural usually gets an average around 24-36 MPG, depending upon load and my driving habits. My sweeet spot in speed is between 55-60 MPH on the rig, but varies in different driving conditions. When driven at 70MPH for any long distance, it is like driving a brick in the wind and the thing becomes more difficult to steer and handle in cross winds and such at that speed. I can top out at about 70MPH if I feel the need to do so, but there is no extra oomph when driving into head winds and up large, steep hills. However, I run with a small spare gas canister that increases my potential distance I can travel. The tank on the Ural is small, it does not have a fuel guage to tell me when it is near empty, and I'd spend my time at the pump more often if I didn't opt to have that small gas canister attached. For me, the Ural meets my needs, as the Texas roads and highways in my area are not congested and you don't have someone on your tail all the time on the super slabs. When I lived in Arlington that was not so, but in Abilene, the rig is a perfect fit for the norms of traffic and such here.

Best of luck in your decision.

Huey writes:
"Sidecars, just as motorcycles, are generally considered something less than a necessity; a big boy toy. :-)"
This assumption is alive and well in the US only. The rest of the world gives motorcycles the respect they deserve. Less pollution, less space used, less road and tear, less need for a large garage and less need for cupholders. Here the SUV is king of the road (for now).
As the US gas prices approach the amount paid by most of the other countries, consumers are taking a different look at the lowly motorcycle and even scooters (whose retail sales have skyrocketed) as the US dollar drops and gas prices climb.

Just venting, here's your thread back.

Lonnie

Originally written by Hack'n on 7/12/2008 11:21 AM

Huey writes:
"Sidecars, just as motorcycles, are generally considered something less than a necessity; a big boy toy. :)"
This assumption is alive and well in the US only. The rest of the world gives motorcycles the respect they deserve. Less pollution, less space used, less road and tear, less need for a large garage and less need for cupholders. Here the SUV is king of the road (for now).
As the US gas prices approach the amount paid by most of the other countries, consumers are taking a different look at the lowly motorcycle and even scooters (whose retail sales have skyrocketed) as the US dollar drops and gas prices climb.

Just venting, here's your thread back.

Lonnie

I think that most loan officers and insurance agents here in the states would easily fall in line with my assumption. They are whom I was actually speaking of in my initial reply.

In recent months in the states sales are indeed up due to the gas prices and economy. The actual view of bikes and such probably hasn't changed much with the loan officers and insurance agents though and I don't necessarily see it as a "respect" issue on their part. Prices are up, demand is up and even deaths on bikes are up, all probably in part due to a need for more miles per gallon and such. HD is purchasing an overseas company in order to get into the demand for high speed bikes. The average age of a biker is about 45, according to recent studies. Sidecarists probably are well beyond that age as an average. What will be interesting will be the future of sidecars on the market, as it is a nitch market to begin with and the daily uses of a sidecar probably will nevcr regain the acceptance of when they were more in demand during the early 1900's.

Yup, several countries do indeed see motorcycles and sidecars a bit differently than maybe they are viewed here in the states. I don't really see that changing much in the states though. Of course, other country's laws regarding both ownership and actual use are sometimes stricter as well and some are often much more loose; thinking of Japan vs India, Behamas vs Phillapines and so forth. I'm glad to own a rig in the states and even more happy to own one in Texas. Be it a "big boy toy" or whatever a boat, ultra light or hobby caft can be called, it is still fun to own one. 🙂

Off note:

When I was stationed in Italy I found it odd that there were very, very few motorcycles of any real size to be seen in daily use. tons of scooters and Mopeds, but few large bikes. Of course, the roads were horrible in many areas of the boonies as well in the main cities, but it was an interesting thing to note. I never saw a single sidecar rig when stationed there. Their daily needs were more in line with Cietron and Fiat ownership, it seemed.

1) What type of bike (since I do not currently own one) should I look for? Is there a large variety of bikes that can have a sidecar or are my options limited? I would prefer a bike that I could also use off road and a 4 stroke. What size engine should I look for?

- I would consider a good used KLR650 and have a Sub-Frame made up for it by one of the custom builders on this board that has done them before.
Other than that I'm sure others have good ideas on your options.

2) What and where do I look for a sidecar?

- Any and everywhere from local papers and friends to online groups like this one. Sometimes you can pick up a Ural, Velorex or such that has been sitting around because it wasn't set up correctly and the owner got tired of the hassle. Other than that a New Velorex, Cozy or Ural type along with Texas Sidecar.

3) Is it easy to hitch/unhitch a sidecar from the bike?

- It can be is it is mounted to a proper set of mounts or Sub-Frame. Many of the Clamp-on universal mounts can be a real PITA every time you take the hack off.
Be prepared for a flame from those that say you shouldn't want to go back and forth though. I started with Sidecars back in the early 70's and have used them as GPV's for decades by setting up my bikes so that they could be easly R&R'd. Even now with my GL1800 and Champion Escort I go back and forth from 2 to 3 wheel mode.
One word of warning on doing that is that the Sub-Frames on some setups are built in such a way that they can catch on a sharp corner in 2-Wheel mode. The Champion GL1800 mount is one of those and it could throw you off the road or flip you. In my case I have the GL1800 suspension set up sooo High with custom and heavy springs that it minimizes the hazard for me.

4) From what I have said above is there any bike/sidecar combo that you would suggest?

- KLR650 and Velorex, Texas Sidecar or Cozy

5) What kind of costs am I looking at?

- It will depend a lot on New vs Used and the cost of a Sub-frame, if needed, and setup by a good Sidecar Dealer. Figure $5,000 and up for a good used rig to $30,000+ for a new Goldwing and basic Champion or equal unit.
You may get by for less with some luck but be cautious of "Bargans" and by all means have a known Sidecar Builder or Dealer help you with getting it set up correctly so that you have a Safe Rig.
Don't count on a Sidecar Rig being Inexpensive on the long haul unless you are able to do most of the work yourself, which will come with time and experiance.

As an example of unexpected expenses in the case of a GL1800 and Champion sidecar the service fees can get very high very quickly when a Dealer has to first Remove the Sidecar then the Front Sub-frame just to replace the sparkplugs or check the valves because the Sub-frame was so poorly designed that it blocks both the covers involved on the right side of the engine. Here is where you will need to be able to DIY or pay out some serious $$$ just for the simple mtce items.

For basic Turn-Key rigs the Ural's look like a good deal BUT they need a lot of mtce and TLC to keep running for the long term and can be an expensive investment for many who arn't tuned into their needs. On the other hand they can be a good learning tool for those willing to learn.

It seems that a lot of used sidecar rigs have very low hours (as a rig) and often a dented sidecar fender. A number of people buy a rig without ever having driven one, then discover that it 'isn't their cup of tea', and then sell it. I'd suggest trying one (That is set up properly) before buying one. Also, I feel it is better to plan on a sidecar rig as being dedicated to that task.... three wheels. I don't personally know anyone who quickly and easily detaches their sidecar to ride solo. I know 7 or 8 people with rigs, and almost all of them also have 'regular' motorcycles. A VW Rabbit convertible will have similar gas mileage, will put wind in your hair, and have a place for the dog to enjoy the wind. You can put the top up when it rains. H.

Is it easy to hitch/unhitch a sidecar from the bike?

If you happen to choose a Ural as a rig to consider, then I'd suggest you go to the main IMZ website and look at the Newbie FAQ page. It has some good comments in the Troyka As A Solo thread. Some can even be applied to other makes of rigs in what to expect when a sidecar rig is swapped over to a solo bike. The info may help you to understand some of the things that many folks don't consider before making such a swap. (I am sure there are likely even differences between other makes of sidecars, due to how they are attached to the frame or built into the frame).

I am working from memory only, but I think the thread doesn't discuss the flat tire tread edges of a typical sidecar tire vs what it feels like when ridden solo with sidecar tires still on it, but it does give a newbie some good information to consume and think over before automatically thinking this swap is an easy thing to do on a daily basis.

Most folks in that thread responded and suggested to get an additional solo if you want one, but one or two have done this and claim it is no big deal. Most of the Uralists I have ever heard asking about such, had purchased their rigs for the wrong reason in the first place and were surprised at the results. Head bearing adjustments, final drive gear ratio differences and even the "wonkiness" of how the bike behaves as a solo with leading link can all factor in. The characteristics of the unit change when this is done, so just be aware of that. It is a personal choice to remove the tub, and some seem to like it while others just don't. The Troyka, Raven and Wolf are the more common rigs in the Ural line up to allow hack removal with the least problems.

Pat has some good points about Tires and Forks vs Switching back and forth.
In my case I have 3 sets of wheels with various tires mounted on them for different uses from regular M/C tires to Winter Car Tires on the rear wheels and Knobby tires for the front that lets me choose the best set for the conditions and season I am ridding in. This may be fairly expensive for some rigs and less so with others depending on the availablility of good new or used wheels.

As far as the forks and differences in Sidecar vs 2-Wheel mode a Trail of 4" or less will be more easy to deal with than those that are longer. The long Trail forks are hard to steer with the sidecar and if you happen to get a bike that has been retrofited with very short trail forks or tripple tree it will likely be unsafe to ride without the sidecar.

Some of the Earls fork types like BMW had two positions on them, one for longer trail for 2-Wheel and the other for shoter trail for the Sidecar operation. Those give you the best of both steering and are easy to switch. On the other hand I find that my GL1800 with 4" of trail works just fine for me either way.

Many of the bikes suitable for dirt road use will also have 4" or so trail and if you don't mount the sidecar with it's wheel more than 8" forward, which makes steering harder, they too should be fine in either mode.

Time to swap can very widely depending on the type of rear swingarm and tires. In my case it takes 15 to 20 minutes to remove or replace the sidecar and another 15 to R&R the rear wheel with the single sided swingarm and a bike lift floor jack. If I switch the front wheel add another 20 to 30 minutes for all the tupperware and dodads on the front end that have to be unbolted. For the front wheel and tire I run a Rear tire that has deeper tread and lasts much longer as well as not needing to be swapped unless I am changing tires for the season. As a result I seldom need to spend more than 30 minutes for a complete change from 2-Wheel to 3-Wheel operation. Even so I don't do it for short term or weekly but do so only for longer periods or to remove the Sidecar so that the bike can be ridden to the Dealer for service that requires it to fit through a door that is too narrow for both.

As an example for the past month I have been making some 300+ mile highway trips with a cargo trailer to and from another house and with todays fuel prices have removed the sidecar to increase my range and reduce the cost for those trip's by $20 or more. It takes about 1/2 the fuel at highway speeds without the extra wind drag that the sidecar causes and allows me to get back to lower priced fuel without filling up where it is 0.30 to 0.40 more per gallon, so that easily justifies the swap for me.