More email for me, can anyone figure out if I can help this guy? He must be using some sort of translation software so it's hard to figure out.
From: luis-121@hotmail.com
Good evenings, I am Luis of Zaragoza (Spain) am an owner of a H-D Flhtc of 1992, want to put a sidecar and kit of dragging tow, to be able to authorize it need a " Report of conformity of the Manufacturing plant of the vehicle in the one that indicates himself that the placement of the kit does not diminish the safety conditions of the vehicle."
You have this certificate or can help me to contact with Harley-Davidson in order that they facilitate it to me.
Thank you for his attention, a greeting.
Originally written by Joyce on 2/24/2009 7:32 PM
More email for me, can anyone figure out if I can help this guy? He must be using some sort of translation software so it's hard to figure out.
From: luis-121@hotmail.com
Good evenings, I am Luis of Zaragoza (Spain) am an owner of a H-D Flhtc of 1992, want to put a sidecar and kit of dragging tow, to be able to authorize it need a " Report of conformity of the Manufacturing plant of the vehicle in the one that indicates himself that the placement of the kit does not diminish the safety conditions of the vehicle."
You have this certificate or can help me to contact with Harley-Davidson in order that they facilitate it to me.Thank you for his attention, a greeting.
Seems to me the guy is in Spain and needs a certificate or something similar stating that a sidecar will not affect the safety of his bike. Must be something needed over there? I would think Harley Davidson would be his best option. Maybe you can forward his request to them or if someone on here knows someone employed by them that would probably help. I'm doubtfull though that they would do so. Opens too many cans of worms legally.
Is Denny Zengre out there? Denny can you help this guy? THX!
Yes, sounds like that he is looking for a certificate from the manufacturer (HD) that the motorcycle can safely handle a sidecar.
Now providing that he is installing a HD sidecar through a HD dealer it may not be a problem with the factory supplying paper work to document this over there due to liabality I would think they may want it in a controlled situation.
I would think that he may be able to contact someone through the HD web system or a dealer over there in Spain.
I do know for a fact some HD dealers here in the US will not service a HD motorcycle with another type of a sidecar other that harley...........and then there are some that do not like to work on bikes with sidecars period.
The sidecar kit is ok but the kit of dragging tow - might be a trailer hitch. Maybe Peter Pan could talk in German or Spanish to get a positive translation.
Originally written by Joyce on 2/24/2009 7:32 PM
More email for me, can anyone figure out if I can help this guy? He must be using some sort of translation software so it's hard to figure out.
From: luis-121@hotmail.com
Good evenings, I am Luis of Zaragoza (Spain) am an owner of a H-D Flhtc of 1992, want to put a sidecar and kit of dragging tow, to be able to authorize it need a " Report of conformity of the Manufacturing plant of the vehicle in the one that indicates himself that the placement of the kit does not diminish the safety conditions of the vehicle."
You have this certificate or can help me to contact with Harley-Davidson in order that they facilitate it to me.Thank you for his attention, a greeting.
I had received the same email via my business address. He probably sent it to any and all sidecar contacts he could find. Contacting Harley would be the way to go for him.
Here I am, friends.
Until today I looked into this thread. this fellow lives in Europe and starts to have the same trouble Germans get when they want to modify their bikes.
What Luis needs is an official statement from the HD, and/or hook producer, that the instalation of sidecar and trailer hook do not affect the safety of the bike. On our side of the big spit pot (Atlantic). we can do nearly what we want with the bikes. Over there specially in Germany the "Unbedenklichkeitsbescheinigung" = certificate of "unobjectability" or "unhesistation" (¿certificado de inofensividad?) is one of the worst things beaurocraccy ever produced...(one of the reasons why I prefer to work here).
It is completely unimportant how well done your set up is, you will not pass technical inspection (at putting the modification on the street and later every 2 years)with our this damn certificate!
I know of people who passed 2 years of hastle because of a piece of paper work.
Sadly many traders and importers will not cooperate at all.
Luis should contact HD directly or the sales man of the rig, attaching set and the hook.
Often a copy of such a certificate from somebody else with the same set up will help to get a "Single acceptance permit" Einzelabnahme (¿permiso individual de ruedo?)
May I which him luck and "Wellcome in European beaurocracy"!
Sven Peter
PS: I contacted him in Spanish, let's see what he needs.
If I had to guess, I would be doubtful that the emailer will get any sort of a safety certificate from HD. It seems that he is also talking about trailers as well. The email is difficult to understand anyway.
There's entirely too much liability for HD to certify safety of a rig over which they have no control.
All the buyer of a sidecar gets in the US from HD is a Bill of Sale. I didn't get a safety certificate when I bought mine. I don't know HD's position on trailers.
Hello Friends, Luis explains the following:
For the sidecar he has to make a hole bunch of engineers work and labratory inspection + paperwork, he he is on his way through that,.
=> I could translate his explaination if you are intersted ,it seems like he is having a hell of a time. => even for used foreign rigs they have to pass a complete new approval process induvidually new again.
But for the hinch, trailer hook (and pulling a trailer) they ask him impossible things: he needs a "certificado del fabricante de la moto, (H-D) que indique que la colocación del enganche no disminuye las condiciones de seguridad del vehiculo"
Certificate from the motorcycles factory (HD) that indicates that the colocation of the hook will not (disminish?) damage the safety conditions of the vehicle...
So If somebody here on the forum knows to whom to talk to to get this certificate, or because of x reason owns such a certificate (or something comparable)
he woould really appreciate this help.(And is gratefull for our interest to help him) His motive is to ride with his son in the sidecar, because they will not let the kid ride on the bike (I guess:having the lugguage in the sidecar)
my comment => European beaurocracy... what a beauty. (by the way how is this word written? in German: "horse's neigh" + unnecessary obstruction.
Claude, Lonnie, or somebody else do you have something in your sleeves to help him?
Hollands and Britts I have often found with trailers on their solo bikes and rigs. I remember in Germany they make quite a trouble too about it.
Best regards
Sven
-------
my response to him:
Hola Don Luis:
de verdad es un hecho que la canasta es lo mejor para disfrutar con los niños. El mio prefiere la canasta a la moto sola.... ni hablar de los perros...
Voy a pasar una traduccion al forum para ver si los compañeros en EEUU puedan ayudar.
Don Claude y Lonnie definitivamente son muy conocedores del campo y a lo mejor pueden ayudar.
Saludos cordiales
Sven Peter
--------
his todays email:
El 26 de febrero de 2009 12:40, Luis Alberto Serrano Castillo escribió:
Buenas tardes amigo, efectivamente, con la burocracia hemos chocado, hasta de ahora habia que hacer un monton de tramites totalmente innecesarios para la seguridad de la marcha del vehiculo, solo cuestion de recaudar dinero, pero ahora nos piden cosas imposibles. En muchos paises veo motos que llevan remolque, pero en españa para poner un enganche de remolque a una moto, hay que tener un "certificado del fabricante de la moto, (H-D) que indique que la colocación del enganche no disminuye las condiciones de seguridad del vehiculo" Para el sidecar nos permiten a cambio que un ingeniero realize un proyecto de modificación, y que un laboratorio realize pruebas de frenado, contaminación y manejabilidad, como que el vehiculo funciona, que te cuesta una pasta, pero bueno es cuestión de dinero. Se da el caso de comprar una moto con sidecar que ha rodado en Francia, Holanda ó EEUU legalmente y en España hay que hacerle todo tipo de pruebas que confirmen lo que en otros paises ya saben, que el vehiculo funciona. Pero con el enganche de remolque es imposible sin el certificado de fabrica.
Por ello si alguien puede indicarme donde tengo que dirigirme para conseguirlo, o por algun motivo tiene un certificado de este tipo, agradeceria me ayudara a conseguirlo, para asi poder disfrutar del sidecar con mi hijo, (en la moto tampoco me dejan llevarlo).
Agradezco mucho vuestro interes en ayudarme, desde España saludos y muchas gracias.
Hello Friends,
specially the profesionals between you, do you have some idea how to help out this man?
Sven Peter
Originally written by Peter Pan on 3/2/2009 6:37 PM
Hello Friends,
specially the profesionals between you, do you have some idea how to help out this man?
Sven Peter
Honestly, Sven, I'm no professional but I think he is asking the impossible. Harley makes and sells sidecars and they do not put out any sort of certificate of safety. The reason they don't is obvious - it has to do with who is installing the sidecar and how it's done. These issues are generally out of the control of the company, unless done by a dealer and even then, I've never seen or heard of such a certificate.
As to trailers, Harley doesn't make or sell them under their company name. I think that obtaining such a certificate would be impossible due to the legal implications.
The authorities in Spain where this fellow lives have given him an impossible task, almost like a riddle in a fairy tale.
For a parallel example, perhaps you've heard about BMW's position on trailers. Not only do they not sell them, they recommend against installing a trailer hitch on their BMW bikes as an unsafe act. While I know that many people install sidecars on BMW's successfully, I doubt that the company would provide a safety certificate on either sidecars or trailers due to their position.
Honda Gold Wing riders frequently install trailers and sidecars with good success but, as far as Honda approving them, I think the company is silent on that issue. There's nothing in the Gold Wing service manual about trailers, or sidecars, for that matter.
So, in my opinion, to repeat, the task that the authorities have given him is just impossible. The legal implications in the event of a mishap are clear and could be far-reaching. There's no benefit to the company in doing something like that. If someone else can tell us about such a safety certificate from Harley or any other company, I'd like to see one.
Regatds.
In my opinion, (qualifier there) his best bet would be to create his own official looking document that would serve to satisfy the bureaucrat at the counter who can rubber stamp the OK for him. Wouldn't be hard with the software and printers available today...
To quote TW:
"In my opinion, (qualifier there) his best bet would be to create his own official looking document that would serve to satisfy the bureaucrat at the counter who can rubber stamp the OK for him. Wouldn't be hard with the software and printers available today..."
In case I forget, remind me to NOT buy a titled vehicle from you, Tom.
Lonnie
NWSC, LLC
OK. There is a difference though. Even a replacement for a lost title can be acquired through proper channels. The document the bureaucrats in Spain are asking for is impossible to obtain and serves an entirely different purpose than a vehicle title. Once again, only my opinion... Wanna sell me one of your vehicles? I'll pay you with these really new, crisp $20's....
Originally written by Reardan Tom on 3/3/2009 10:12 AM
OK. There is a difference though. Even a replacement for a lost title can be acquired through proper channels. The document the bureaucrats in Spain are asking for is impossible to obtain and serves an entirely different purpose than a vehicle title. Once again, only my opinion... Wanna sell me one of your vehicles? I'll pay you with these really new, crisp $20's....
Your post about sums it up. The authorities in Spain are clueless as to what a proper sidecar or trailer might look like. They want to shift any responsibility that might arise due to an accident or other mishap to the builder of the equipment. There's no consideration flowing to the builder for the liability that would create.
Generally, a builder of vehicles has a duty to make things that are suitable for use in commerce and are built to ordinary standards suitable for use in the trade. In legal terms, they have a duty of merchantability as to the products that they produce. They will generally also warrant them for a reasonable period against defects in manufacturing processes or materials. Harley-Davidson's warranty period is presently 2 years with unlimited mileage on their motorcycles, sidecars and trikes. That's as far as it goes, though.
I'd bet that their legal department would give them a thumb's down on any further "Safety Certificate". Something like that has lots of problems with it.
As to faking one, well, that's something I wouldn't do, although, under the circumstances that appears to be the only thing that would get the fellow in Spain out of a tight spot. I wonder if he's considered moving?
