You can find Hal Kendall's stuff here:
http://www.sidecar.com/links3.asp
You can find Dave Hough's book here:
http://www.whitehorsepress.com/product_info.php?products_id=1105
You can find instructor led sidecar training here:
http://www.esc.org/content/05%20Motorcycle%20and%20Sidecar%20Trike/STEP%20National%20Schedule.htm
Please..please...please! put your wife in the SC!! it is very unsafe to ride with a passenger on the back of the bike. It has been done but it is NOT reccomended .
If you must ride with 2 other people put the heavier one in the car but that still doesnt make it safe for the passenger.. tipover speed [on right turns]will be very low. control can be lost very easily.
for example..riding straight down the road, wife looking at the beutiful scnery, or at your child in the SC..a suden deer or other unexpected hazard pops up all of a sudden in front of the bike..... you need to swerve...fast! left or right. your unsuspecting wife will end up hanging off the side if shes lucky, or tossed out on the road if shes not... from the sudden inertia to the side. just one event like that ...if your wife is still around, will make her get into the SC. do it BEFORE it happens. remember the rig doesnt lean like a bike anymore..it is like riding in a car with no doors and no seatbelts. passenger can slide right out the door. both should be in the SC.
with wife in the SC I can take posted curves 10 over the post if I can see around it...20 mph around city corners.
Hi, just reading this thread but had a question. Does the passanger always have to ride in the sidecar? Or is this just on this paticular cidecar package? We currently have a HD Roadking and planning on getting a sidecar. Our plan is to have me (the wife) ride behind my husband and have our 2 dogs (40lbs total) in the sidecar. Which type of sidecars would be a good package for our current motorcycle other than the HD sidecare? So many questions to explore before bitting the bullet and getting the sidecar.
Just a little clarification. The important thing to remember about the sidecar weight distribution is not so much where the wife rides, but rather what the ratio of weight of the loaded motorcycle to the weight of the loaded sidecar. A 500 lb motorcycle with 310 pounds of rider and passenger comes to 810 lbs. A 200 lb. sidecar with a 30 lb passenger is 230 lbs. You could use another 150 to 200 lbs in the sidecar. The alternative and also the easiest adjustment would be to put the wife in the sidecar with your child.
Check out the concept of tipover lines. You can find that on page 23 of Hal Kendall's book here at sidecar.com:
http://www.sidecar.com/Files/SC%20OP%20Manual.pdf
or buy the Sidecar Safety Program's book "Driving a Sidecar Outfit" This is available from many outlets, just google the title.
It's unsafe to ride with a passenger on the back of a sidecar equipped bike. I could cite authority on this but it's not necessary since it's just common sense.
Yes, a rig can be run with two on the bike. Yes, it has been done and some have actually done round the world tours this way. Yes, it is typically not recomeneded. Why is it not recomended? The reasons mentioned earlier are vaild ones, event the sarcatic remarks have validity to them.
However, if you are set on running with two on the bike it can be done.
First off your pillion passenger MUST realize about weight transfer in corners and know how to hang on. The passenger WILL tend to slip to the outside of the turn unlike on a solo bike.
Your bike's suspension may be too soft to handle the weight of two up plus the weight being transferred into it in a right hand turn.
The sidecar will need ballast in right turns and possible more suspension to handle the additional weight transfer from a higher center of gravity due to the a passenger in left turns.
You may find that lean in will work better for you than lean out when the rig is setup for the additional pillion weight. This can make a mess out of handling when riding alone or with more weight in the sidecar than on the bike. A good tilt adjustor may be in order.
An anti swaybar will help a lot if you decide to get serious with this.
One thing you should do before anything is to call Motorvation. They are great to talk to and have run up against most if not all scenarios at one time or another.
Read Hal's liturature for sure.
DO NOT ride the rig as it is until some adjustments are done.
IF YOU WISH TO CALL ME FEEL FREE IN THE EVENINGS AT 570 837 5182
You know, there is certainly enough posts here to suggest to get the wife off the rear of the bike. I'd never personally recommend putting a kiddo (baby) into a child safety seat on the back of any rig. I don't recall it being posted here in the past, but I am not sure if any state requires the use of safety seats or child carriers for kids in a hack or not. Never actually checked into it, but maybe it needs to be addressed here. Since all the same mechanics or dynamics would hold true in a sidecar as well when it comes to physics and motion, I would think a kid is going to fly out of mom's loving arms in any wreck. Just something to think about. It may be a good idea to develop a safety thread about the different states and what they require as to safety belts and safety seats for children in hacks.
Any rate, I am of the opinion (and like a-holes, everyone has one they tell me), that weight distribution does indeed have MUCH to do with placement of the wife. It is not just a simple matter of weight distribution, but also of experience in what to do and what to expect when in various riding locations on the bike or in the sidecar. You can always compute mathmatical figures to support such and such amount of weight is ok in one location vs another, but life comes at you quick. Reactions and experience as a rider are paramount in making it all work safely, so I don't agree that the wife's seating doesn't matter in the equasion.
If the bike sidecar is too tight as is, then you have limited choices in what to do. I always promote safety first in making such decisions, but your safest bet is to move the wife and child immediately into the sidecar and to consider changing the sidecar to a more appropriate size. I don't really read any negatives into any of the posts, as you are wanting the best advise possible to be given to you. Good, bad or ugly, most of the comments are designed to get you to think of your family and self first. Adding caps, bolding text or highlighting text isn't being done as a negative, just because you would choose to not hear some of the messages. I think that most are simply saying to make a positive change before something really bad happens. The situation you describe now is clearly unsafe, and most just what you to be safe with your family. I wouldn't make more of it than that, but I don't know what you really meant about someone posting sarcastic remarks. I guess that blew past me when I read all the previous responses on the topic.
From your previous post it seems that you haven't actually researched or read all that much about sidecar use prior to hoppin in one and loading it all up for a drive with the family. I don't mean that as a negative in the least, as, unfortunately, many new owners have followed the same path. That is when accidents do happen quickly, as those type of new hack owners frequently don't understand various steering situations, pre-trip load positioning, and tip over lines. Sometimes a dangerous situation can be remedied before it becomes a disasterous situation. I'd recommend a sidecar training class ASAP, certianly a lot of reading of Hal's book, and a lot of unused parking lot practice before hitting the roads with the family onboard.
Hope none of that comes across as a negative or just preaching. All of our learning comes at a price. We just don't want anyone to learn at the price of safety of themselves and their family. Enjoy your rig, but learn more about it as well. Asking your questions here was a good first start for sure.
Huey
The AMA has a great site for State by State motorcycle laws. It's a great place to check.
http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/laws.asp
Originally written by Huey on 7/30/2007 4:02 AM
Any rate, I am of the opinion that weight distribution does indeed have MUCH to do with placement of the wife. Huey
weight distribution has little to do with a passenger on the bike.
no matter how much the SC weighs, or how much weight you put into the SC, the passenger on a pillion is still going to be thrown to the outside [on a right turn], by centrifigul force. passenger on pillion cant be expected to be alert and ready for any emergency maneuvers all day..impossible.
can be thrown completely off the bike in a sudden enexpected manuever. it does not lean like a solo bike.
Re-read paragraph two of what I had said, as drawing out a single sentence probably steers it away from context a bit. Weight doesn't matter in and of itself, but experience plays a good part in it, as does luck, weight shift in turns (cintrifical force at work), and so forth. The dynamics of centrifical force do play their important role as well, and not just sheer weight distribution in and by itself. Put an inexperienced rider behind you on a pillion seat and all bets are off on just what is gonna' get you into trouble the worst, load placement, weight distribution, centrifical force, bad karma or what. 🙂
