Hey Ernie,
You didn't report the fate of the drivers. As a person who both rides and drives, I know it's the passengers who are the bravest because they're usually the ones who get hurt first and worst. Well, I say bravest, that is, if they actually know what could happen. If they are just blindly trusting the driver, they may just be blissfully ignorant.
Connie
I guess I wasn't explicit (?) enough; one sidecar, one solo bike, both with female passengers on back of the bikes. Both women killed, both men in the hospital with as yet unknown (to me)injuries.
Ernie,
I don't know why this story has brothered me so much. Maybe because I'm wondering if it happended during the recent Wings Over the Smokies Rally (which we attended) or because I have both ridden and carried a passenger on the back seat(I hate having anyone on the backseat!) of my rig, and I have also owned & driven a Voyager. It was during the Wings Over the Smokies Rally in 1998 that I had the first opportunity to speak to another sidehacker. I had entered my rig in the bike show (won second place in "sidecar show" with my 1200 rig) and when I went to pickup my bike there was a couple loading up their fancy 1500 Goldwing rig. I attempted to ask him some questions about sidehacking, but he was a real arrogant "A" hole and blew me off with short, high-handed remarks (I decided that if that was how sidehackers acted, I didn't want to know any). Anyway, as I watched his wife climb on the backseat, I wondered why a person would bother to drive a rig if his passenger wasn't going to ride in the car (of course, after his rude behavior, I didn't ask!).
It still seems to me that neither of the drivers involved in that accident must have had much experience with the rigs that they were driving. But rest assured, there won't be any passengers on my back seat!
Connie
Connie wrote:
>>It still seems to me that neither of the drivers involved in that accident must have had much experience with the rigs that they were driving. But rest assured, there won't be any passengers on my back seat!<<
Good policy Connie.
Not to say it cannot be done but it must be done with some thought. Many would say it is all about weight distribution and they would be partially correct. But it is more than that. Face it a 300 person can operate a sidecar outfit safely right? Yes...so we can ask what is the difference between one 300 poundr on a bike and two 150 pounders riding tandem? If it is set up for the two 150 pounders it can work but there is more to it than that. The passenger is live ballast whever they are on the machine. Live ballast can move. In a turn with a solo machine the turning forces do not tend to push the passenger towards the outside of the bike as they do on a sidecar rig. Think about what it would be like to have 150 pounds of ballast all of a sudden move off the rear seat to the left in a right hand turn...not a good thing. This can happen on an outfit and can happen due to the passenger not being ready for an evasive move or simply not being able to stay stationary in a turn.
So, two on a bike can be done but we simply feel it best to say it is a no no for many reasons. Your posted policy is a good one.
Ride safe,
Claude
Oh, hope you found out later that very few sidecarists are like the goof you mentioned. 🙂
I second the comments of Connie and Claude...great thoughts for safe riding on a rig.
please....think about, and believe every word they said!!
While in full and total agreement with the above on the safety issue involved, one still canna leave this issue without a review of the epic trip made by Richard and Mopsa English of the UK who in early 1980s travelled around the world some 90,000 miles on a 1982 Triumph Thunderbird and a Sruire sidebox filled with their camping gear with one or the other riding pillion the entire journey.
The entire trip was done in a safe manner. It was carefully thought out. You can read about their trip in their book Full Circle, Around the World with a Motorcycle and Sidecar. ISBN 0 85429 662 X
Published by Haynes. Still available through Ibris on the net.
They have visited our families and many of the USCA members have welcomed these folks into their homes and bid them godspeed. They have been written about several times in the Sidecarist.
However, in no way does this encourage the riding of a pillion passanger and an empty sidecar. Nor of taking this practice lightly. But it can be done and done safely if you are willing to do what Richard and Mopsa did. Extremely few are willing or able to do so. Bottom line, unless you can, then do not attempt to do so.
Of course it can be done safely..[but dont tell me the never dumped the rig on the trip]...look at the HP racing rigs. all it takes is a professional passenger who stays aware 100% of the time of all road conditions, assists in all the curves, cambers, keeps lookout for hazzards, etc. not much fun, or practical on a cruising rig on a trip .
tell this [do not look to the sides...keep looking straight ahead where we are going! lean on all the turns...watch for hazzards all the time...] to the wife, child or other passenger who dozes off on the ride, or is looking at something off to the side at the wrong moment...oooooops!!
No, Bob, they never dumped the bike on the trip - which they both enjoyed immensely, but the bike did break down on several occasions. Next time they will utilize a BIGGER bike.
As we both are saying, I believe, is that the vast majority are not prepared to acknowledge what it takes to do it right so they should be actively discouraged from doing it at all - unless there is a real reason for them to do so. Then and only then with all the risks understood, with the rig properly balanced, as it most certainly was in this case, hell man, just read their book - that loaded sidecar probably weighed as much as the bike itself! And it stayed that way. The Squire sidebox is a sidecar deliberately designed for carrying cargo only - there is no provision for any seating. Period. This was deliberately chosen for the trip.
As I stated - very few are prepared to drive in the safe manner as were the the English.
I gotta get that book..sounds very interesting!
yeah, it all boils down to being prepared for all the unexpected things that can, and will, come up.
I have heard too many two-up rig drivers say "I drive carefully and we never had an accident". so do I, but I cant say it aint gonna happen...dont push your luck riding pillion, unless you follow the afore mentioned tips. people need all the help they can get to ride safely and enjoy their trip.
I had posted a similar response to Hal's at SCT when this subject came up. All that Hal said here is true from the voice of experience. Yes, it can be done but not without knowing what you are doing.
The fear when putting a passenger on the pillion is that it will upset the balance of the rig that is not set up for it. It will WILL create a very unstbale outfit and can cause huge problems!
#2 is the passnger ,even if the rig is set up to deal with the different weight distribution, must be aware that the cornering forces will tend to make them slide off the saddle.
Anyone who says it cannot be done is simply not experienced with it or has never had a rig setup to handle it.
More importantly is that anyone who does it without realizing the ramifications is just as foolish as they are an accident ready to happen and none of us want to see that.
The common short advice is to not ride a passenger on the pillion period. This is not bad advice at all and is th esafest way to go. But...as explained it can be done but only with proiper setup and knowledge.
Here is another source for this book(if the link does not work just go to http://www.amazon.com and typpe in Mopsa and scroll down, it is there):
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/085429662X/qid=1130272763/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-8783374-1235335?v=glance&s=books
those links to the book all work but prices are outta sight! $45.any body have a used one for about $10..more my price range.
Bob,
I think the reason the price is so high is that the book has been out of print for a while now. I do not have a copy myself or I would send it to you and get it back at RDVIII. The book called 'Obsessions Die Hard' is good reading too as is 'Jupiter's Travels' and some of the others.These are not sidecar related though.
Check it out at your PUBLIC LIBRARY - that is what your TAX DOLLARS are for.
If they do NOT have it, they can get it from INTER-LIBRARY loan, again your own tax dollars at work.
I have gotten MANY out of print classic books on motorbooks, bicycles, dating back to the turn of the century thru this source.
Begin at the nearest PUBLIC Library closest to your home.
It may take from three to six weeks - but what the hey?
