Has anyone known of cutting a door into a TLE? My guess is that it would become too flexible and cause fiberglass stress cracks.
Sure would be nice for the wife or our 90 lb Lab.
Rotten Ralph - 7/24/2011 9:35 AM
Has anyone known of cutting a door into a TLE? My guess is that it would become too flexible and cause fiberglass stress cracks.
Sure would be nice for the wife or our 90 lb Lab.
No one else answered so I thought I might comment.
I've personally never seen or heard of anyone doing this. You pretty much explained the problem. In the event that a door were to be cut into the TLE body without reinforcement, the body would crack to pieces in a short time. It could be done, but It would require incorporating some sort of tubing framework inside of the body, especially around the opening. Also, the door would have to be reinfoced. It would also be weaker in the event of a crash.
Then there is the issue of resale. After installation of a door, the OEM collector value would be totally gone. Sidecars are extremely difficult to sell even when complete and original. With extensive modification, you would lose a major portion of the audience, at least from my perspective.
What might be a better choice would be to retain the original TLE body and swap it for something like a Ural. Those have a door I believe and could easily be mounted on the TLE frame. There are only six bolts as you probably know - three in front and three in the rear. That way, you would have a sidecar that is much easier to enter and still have the OEM body later on if you decide to sell out.
JMO.
I'm not sure what the TLE body is. I built many of the Liberty style Harley bodies with doors over the years. I used wood as a renforcing material. The fiberglass resin will soak into the wood and bond nicely. The door also was reinforced with wood. I have used tubing to reinforce other fiberglass products over the years and it will also work.
I wouldn't be to concerned about resale value if you install a door in the sidecar body. You only live once and if you want a door in your sidecar that's what you should do. It reminds me of the wife that's got all the upholstery in her front room covered with plastic so that the dam couch and chair won't get worn. There is a thing called quality of life. Enjoy every day, because you may not have a tomorrow. There are no guarantees in life. Live it, and enjoy it.
My $0.02 plus a penny.
Johnny Sweet jsweet450@yahoo.com
Johnny Sweet - 7/25/2011 7:20 PM
I'm not sure what the TLE body is. I built many of the Liberty style Harley bodies with doors over the years. I used wood as a renforcing material. The fiberglass resin will soak into the wood and bond nicely. The door also was reinforced with wood. I have used tubing to reinforce other fiberglass products over the years and it will also work.
I wouldn't be to concerned about resale value if you install a door in the sidecar body. You only live once and if you want a door in your sidecar that's what you should do. It reminds me of the wife that's got all the upholstery in her front room covered with plastic so that the dam couch and chair won't get worn. There is a thing called quality of life. Enjoy every day, because you may not have a tomorrow. There are no guarantees in life. Live it, and enjoy it.
My $0.02 plus a penny.
Johnny Sweet jsweet450@yahoo.com
The TLE body is blown in fiberglass chop, much like an early Corvette.
Thank you for sharing your philosophy in re modification of machinery and especially the matter of quality of life. You have a way with words. You apparently presume that I have never considered my quality of life.
For the record, quality of life for me includes taking care of my machinery. If I think that something will need extensive modification, I simply buy something else that won't require modification.
In that regard, if there's anything that makes my skin crawl, it's a nice unit that someone has drilled, chopped, cut, sliced and smooshed into an unrecognizable POS.
But I mean that in a nice way, it's a quality of life thing. LOL.
Rotten Ralph - 7/24/2011 1:35 PM Has anyone known of cutting a door into a TLE? My guess is that it would become too flexible and cause fiberglass stress cracks. Sure would be nice for the wife or our 90 lb Lab.
Hey rotten Ralph
theres a company called L&W body they are located in Pa. google them, they use to make the earlier style hd steel body sidecar with a door in it this type of body(minus the door) were used until the mid 60's
Thanks Chuck - I'll look into it.
RR
I'm with Johnny Sweet on this one. If you want a door, put a door in it. If you get a little less for it down the road, so what? At least you'll be able to enjoy it more while you have it. You also need to compare the cost of installing a door (make sure it's a high quality job) plus the reduction in value (IF any) to the cost of buying, modifying and installing a Ural body.
With that said, I want a door in my TLE also. I haven't found anybody to do the job for me yet. I've checked with a high end rod shop in my area and they aren't interested in doing the job. Haven't had time to check other shops. In the meantime, I've made a large step, attached to the Harley step, for my dog to use in getting into the sidecar. As he gets older (like me) a door would handy for him to get in easier. If my dog has quality of life then I am happy.
Terry
tmuilenberg - 7/26/2011 12:52 PM I'm with Johnny Sweet on this one. If you want a door, put a door in it. If you get a little less for it down the road, so what? At least you'll be able to enjoy it more while you have it. You also need to compare the cost of installing a door (make sure it's a high quality job) plus the reduction in value (IF any) to the cost of buying, modifying and installing a Ural body. With that said, I want a door in my TLE also. I haven't found anybody to do the job for me yet. I've checked with a high end rod shop in my area and they aren't interested in doing the job. Haven't had time to check other shops. In the meantime, I've made a large step, attached to the Harley step, for my dog to use in getting into the sidecar. As he gets older (like me) a door would handy for him to get in easier. If my dog has quality of life then I am happy. Terry
I'm with you guys. Not everyone has bundles of cash to throw away because they might upset some purist. If anything, I would think a properly modified body would bring a higher price.
There are dozens of Harley sidecars out there for sale on any given day. None of them are bringing high end collector dollars. Even if they were, don't fret about the elitest. He will find another one for sale just down the block.
Im with GNM..
Why butcher a good HD hack body..
You;se state there is dozens around for sale...WHERE?
hd now has quit production and i think you will find that there aint dozens around for sale, and if ya find one, check out its price...
if ya reall want a door, then grab a hack body from ural or something that isnt worth near as much and sell your HD tub to someone who needs one...You'Ll prob end up dollars ahead and get your door free..Just My 50cents worth..
onahog - 7/29/2011 11:46 PMIm with GNM..Why butcher a good HD hack body..You;se state there is dozens around for sale...WHERE?hd now has quit production and i think you will find that there aint dozens around for sale, and if ya find one, check out its price...if ya reall want a door, then grab a hack body from ural or something that isnt worth near as much and sell your HD tub to someone who needs one...You'Ll prob end up dollars ahead and get your door free..Just My 50cents worth..
Perhaps it depends on where you are. I was just offered one off of a hundredth anniversary Ultra for $3000.
That's the third or fourth time this riding season that someone has approached me with one for sale in that price range. That's a little too often to be considering them rare. At least around here. A quick search of AllofCraigs came up with pages of them all over the country.
I never said that they were rare. My objection to doing something like this is that it has limited value in relation to the collateral effects.
The Harley sidecar is of monocoque design.
mon·o·coque (mn-kk, -kk)
n.
A metal structure, such as an aircraft, in which the skin absorbs all or most of the stresses to which the body is subjected. Courtesy of the Free Dictionary.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/monocoque
Examples of aircraft that relied on this type of design were the German WWI Albatross fighter and the British WWII Mosquito Fighter-Bomber. They were very strong until they were hit with machine gun fire or a cannon shell.
In like manner, the later fiberglass Harley sidecars rely on the outer skin for their strength. I also speak from experience here having had several of them apart to repair dents and cracks which were not reachable from the opening for the passenger. Once apart, the sections have little inherent strength and are quite flexible, It's only when the outer rail is installed an d riveted or screwed back together that the original strength designed into the unit is regained.
So, if one were to cut a large hole through both the top and bottom sections of the tub to make room for a door, there would be considerable weakening of the unit. Thus, one who does this needs to be prepared to do some extensive metal work as well as some engineering to make it work. If that's the sort of work one is good at, I say go for it. But there are other considerations.
There are issues of liability to consider. If such a modification to an existing structure were made and someone were to be injured as a result, there is nearly limitless liability. How can that happen, you say? The law books are chock full of cases where modifications were made to machines or vehicles which were found either to have been the exact proximate cause of an accident, or which were proven to have exacerbated the injury.
Forgetting the fact that cutting a door in the side of an original Harley sidecar will devalue the unit more than 50% below Lonnie's offered prices of $3,000, (my estimate, it could be more) the possibility of any accident in which the plaintiff's lawyer could seize on any unauthorized modification to increase damages and spread the liability to the modifier (who may no longer be the owner), should be enough to cause one to take pause.
But that's only the way I see it. So you folks are free to knock yourselves out and cut, chop and modify. Get some insurance, too. 🙂
The Harley sidecar is of monocoque design? A monocoque would be the body and frame as a single unit, as in the case of the XKE or MGB. The Harley body sets on a fairly stout frame. A properly constructed door would not impair the frame strength or safety. Any more than removing the door from a Jeep CJ would weaken it's frame.
As I've said in the past, my wife's complaints about our Harley car were the body mounted on springs, which she found uncomfortable, and having to climb over the side to get in and out. If I were to take her to look at one for sale, a door would greatly increase it's value in her eyes. I would expect the same would be true of many passengers.
To each his own.
SidecarMike - 7/30/2011 8:11 AM
The Harley sidecar is of monocoque design? A monocoque would be the body and frame as a single unit, as in the case of the XKE or MGB. The Harley body sets on a fairly stout frame. A properly constructed door would not impair the frame strength or safety. Any more than removing the door from a Jeep CJ would weaken it's frame.
As I've said in the past, my wife's complaints about our Harley car were the body mounted on springs, which she found uncomfortable, and having to climb over the side to get in and out. If I were to take her to look at one for sale, a door would greatly increase it's value in her eyes. I would expect the same would be true of many passengers.
To each his own.
The frame has nothing to do with the tub. No one so far (except you) has mentioned the frame being impaired in any way by cutting a dorr in the tube. The tub is, indeed, monocoque design.
You "think" a door would improve the value of an otherwise original sidecar. It's only a quess. After nearly a lifetime of buying and selling Harley-Davidsons and their sidecars, I can tell you that mods (cuts, slices, holes, frame modifications, etc.l) are a guaranteed loss when it comes to a sale, trade or an outright purchase. A dealer won't even look at a bike or a sidecar that's had cutting done to it.
By the way, the body of the Liberty sidecar, which you so greatly admire, is also mounted on sprigs, albeit suppmenented by some sort of swing arm.
I'm done here.
gnm109 - 7/30/2011 10:35 AM
SidecarMike - 7/30/2011 8:11 AM
The Harley sidecar is of monocoque design? A monocoque would be the body and frame as a single unit, as in the case of the XKE or MGB. The Harley body sets on a fairly stout frame. A properly constructed door would not impair the frame strength or safety. Any more than removing the door from a Jeep CJ would weaken it's frame.
As I've said in the past, my wife's complaints about our Harley car were the body mounted on springs, which she found uncomfortable, and having to climb over the side to get in and out. If I were to take her to look at one for sale, a door would greatly increase it's value in her eyes. I would expect the same would be true of many passengers.
To each his own.
The frame has nothing to do with the tub. No one so far (except you) has mentioned the frame being impaired in any way by cutting a dorr in the tube. The tub is, indeed, monocoque design. You "think" a door would improve the value of an otherwise original sidecar. It's only a quess. After nearly a lifetime of buying and selling Harley-Davidsons and their sidecars, I can tell you that mods (cuts, slices, holes, frame modifications, etc.l) are a guaranteed loss when it comes to a sale, trade or an outright purchase. A dealer won't even look at a bike or a sidecar that's had cutting done to it. By the way, the body of the Liberty sidecar, which you so greatly admire, is also mounted on sprigs, albeit suppmenented by some sort of swing arm. I'm done here.
You have me confused with someone else. I've never said anything about Liberty sidecars, other than maybe liking the way they look. I too have been buying and mounting sidecars since the early 70's, predominently Harleys until about 1996 when we discovered there are other brands out there. As such, I thought maybe I was entitled to an opinion. I stand corrected.
